SuzukiSavage.com - Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg!

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Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg!
Reply #15 - 10/16/10 at 09:21:31

drums1 wrote on 10/16/10 at 09:17:33:

Jeez, sometimes this place gets to sounding like Romper Room. In my case I had rebuilt the dam carb 3 times. And a fourth to recheck the floats. I did a rebuild kit on pet thingy, and that didn't work either. Then I did the plugging of the vacuum source thing while running on prime. It worked. I haven't been able to afford a Raptor yet, but I've put 2,000 miles on this summer the way it is. Hey guys--whatever works go with it, but lets not condemn everyone elses methods. Some work, some don't. It's called diagnosing and testing. Sooner or later one method or another will lead to the fix. Nuf said. My 2 cents. Smiley

Proper test...

Turning to prime, only checks the vacuum line,...
Why do a test that only rules out half the possibilities?...

Block the vacuum tap, and turn to prime,... if that makes no difference, the petcock is not the problem... no way shape or form... if it fixes the problem, you have saved yourself a lot of trouble...

I'm not tending to see leak instead of starvation,... I'm recommending a simple test that will check for both...
Why do half a test, and leave people thinking that they've ruled out the petcock as a possibility when they haven't?...

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Boofer Serious Thumper Offline Nearly too old. Posts: 1760 N Ms Gender:	Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Reply #16 - 10/16/10 at 10:39:44 Romper Room? LOL "I see Versy, I see Serry, I see Boofer, I see Bill, Boofer! Quit putting additives in the Kool Aid!" Sorry, I couldn't help it. I am going to be a Do Bee from now on. Or was that Captain Kangaroo? Drums, you must be really old.
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Oldfeller--FSO Serious Thumper ModSquad Offline Hobby is now "concentrated neuropany" Posts: 12636 Fayetteville, NC Gender:	Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Reply #17 - 10/16/10 at 12:11:13 Now which kiddie is which? I know I had a special day !!! Did you?
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Routy Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2280 Winston Oregon Gender:	Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Reply #18 - 10/16/10 at 20:29:13 I have a simple question,....only because I've not had it happen,...... What happens when the diaphram in the petcock ruptures while the engine is running ?
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ratz Junior Member Offline Wait.......what?? Posts: 92 Alabama Gulf Coast Gender:	Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Reply #19 - 10/16/10 at 20:49:13 Oh,I know the answer to this one! The engine runs very rich,very quickly.On mine,it was black smoke rich! I guess a smaller hole would be less rich,but rich nonetheless. It's interesting because the carb gets starved for fuel,but fuel is being sucked straight into the intake boot,so the carb just becomes an air-metering device.
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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg!
Reply #20 - 10/17/10 at 02:15:42

OK, how about a Unified Field Theory, Wink

oops I meant

Unified Petcock Test Method.

Proposed

Put no more that a quarter can of Seafoam into a full tank of gasoline, pull the vac line from the carb, stick a golf tee in it, cap the vac port, run your bike in Prime (making sure you follow the cast in place arrow on the lever) and only call us back AFTER you run out the entire can of Seafoam.

(that's 4 tankfuls of gas, or about a month of analysis time)

We can call it the Sero-Billistic "totally thorough" method of forensic investigation .....

Grin

.... after doing this you'll actually know something to tell us.

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« Last Edit: 10/18/10 at 00:47:09 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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Routy

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Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg!
Reply #21 - 10/17/10 at 05:12:34

Ok, this is the answer I would expect.
What I'm trying to understand is,.....
If the diaphram ruptures, it would no longer hold the valve open, so where is any of this fuel coming from that is making the engine run rich, and supposedly filling the air box w/ fuel ?

I mean,.......
We have 2 senerios here, a slight leak of fuel that the engine would easily digest, and may go undetected for some time,
or a major leak that would shut off the fuel supply completely.
Where am I thinking wrong ?
ratz wrote on 10/16/10 at 20:49:13:

Oh,I know the answer to this one!
The engine runs very rich,very quickly.On mine,it was black smoke rich!
I guess a smaller hole would be less rich,but rich nonetheless.
It's interesting because the carb gets starved for fuel,but fuel is being sucked straight into the intake boot,so the carb just becomes an air-metering device.

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'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Reply #22 - 10/17/10 at 05:15:31 If the diaphragm leaks & allows fuel to get to the part where the vacuum is applied, then it'll suck fuel into the vac line. Making it run rich.
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Oldfeller--FSO

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Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg!
Reply #23 - 10/17/10 at 05:30:38

Point he's making is if the diaphragm is holed enough to richen out the combustion process badly, it likely has too big of a hole to apply suction to the spring counterbalanced fuel cut off seat -- the gas flow would then be cut off and all would die.

Except of course for the gasoline that was sucking back into the system through the vac tube and getting atomized by the venturi effect, so yes maybe it could keep running.

Mebbie.

(be fun to start though, although using full choke might jest pull it off if there was still gas left in the bowl that is)

Durndifino !!

Likely answer is "just how durn big is the tear/rent/wrinkle/hole/diaphragm surface de-lamination zone?"

If it were just beginning (or is tiny) then yes the durn thing would likely still start and run but would act all wonky in a variety of different ways .....

Huh

Sheesh, and you wonder why step #1 in the Oldfeller investigation method is to take the durn stock petcock off and bounce it off the wall a time or two? You can chase LOTS of pretty butterflies with just the failure modes we know about that take place in the stock petcock. You start mixing the effects, the opportunities multiply accordingly.

The good news is the Sero-Billistic Unified Test Method would still remove all these issues and the bike would still run OK using the Unified Test Method.

.... and Bill sez after a month of running his magic elixir that your float and needle would be all luby duby and your carbie warbie would be all whistley twistely clean inside.

Grin

(I watched my romper room today, didn't you?)

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« Last Edit: 10/17/10 at 07:41:53 by Oldfeller--FSO »

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28752 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Reply #24 - 10/17/10 at 08:48:56 geessses, where's my magic glasses for the finey whiney print.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Reply #25 - 10/17/10 at 09:05:56 (I watched my romper room today, didn't you?) Watch!!?? I dont "Watch" Romper Room, I Live it! I have a pair of Romper Stompers made of 4 cans, Tall Suckers, as Romper Stompers go. No one else around here has Near as Nice a setup. I am the envy of 'em all!
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Routy

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Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg!
Reply #26 - 10/17/10 at 09:12:37

O F does get my point. It seems that there is barely enough vacuum to hold the valve open (I have seen it on a vacuum gauge) w/ a perfect diaphram, let alone one w/ a crack in it big enough to cause a rich/bad running engine.

One more thing,........
there have been some here that have had WOT fuel starvation that switching to prime fixed it. But yet changing the vacuum hose didn't solve the problem, so the problem was blamed onto a faulty valve.
They then changed out to a Raptor which fixed the problem, proving that the valve was at fault ???????? Maybe not.
W/ a limited vacuum supply to start w/, how many of these are running just plain low manifold vac,....because the compression isn't what it should be ?? (for whatever reason)
I am certain that any drop in compression,....leaky valves or rings, is first going to show up as a petcock shutting down because of low manifold vacuum. I just feel like these OEM petcocks could be getting unfairly critisized in some cases.
I'm also thinking that Suzi would do something different if they had as many failures come into the shops as has been reported here.

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Rich
'07 S40 Blvd stocker, except drilled OEM exhaust and white spacer mod...1/2 (.055)

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28362 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Reply #27 - 10/17/10 at 09:47:23 Routy wrote on 10/17/10 at 09:12:37: I'm also thinking that Suzi would do something different if they had as many failures come into the shops as has been reported here. It's not just Suzuki,... do a net search and you'll find the same problem among many brands of bike...
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Phelonius Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1897	Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Reply #28 - 10/17/10 at 10:01:00 At least the site now lets us speak of this problem without changing the subject to pet thingy. Phelonius
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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28362 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Reply #29 - 10/17/10 at 10:25:58 Phelonius wrote on 10/17/10 at 10:01:00: At least the site now lets us speak of this problem without changing the subject to pet thingy. Phelonius I always thought it was rude to pet your thingy in public anyway... ...
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