|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1287079709 Message started by Serowbot on 10/14/10 at 11:09:58 |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Serowbot on 10/14/10 at 11:09:58 Use a gun... ;)... Test your Petcock... here's how... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429 |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/14/10 at 14:08:41 Run it for a week in Prime position -- tell us if it behaves better/differently. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by bill67 on 10/14/10 at 14:13:02 Did you try Sea Foam in the gas yet? |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by ThumperKat on 10/14/10 at 15:11:11 haven't tried sea foam...it won't throttle on 'prime' either. starts, idles, try to give it throttle, sputters...feels like its being starved, but i'm watching fuel flow thru the inline filter. i guess i'll just do everything...replace w/manual pc, tear carb down...maybe stuck float? oh...and get a BIGGER hammer. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Serowbot on 10/14/10 at 16:20:40 I'm so tired of saying this... Just turning the petcock to "prime" will not work as a test,...that test will only test for an air leak in the vacuum hose,... it will only add flow to a leaky diaphragm... Please read the "Test your petcock" post for instructions on how to do a proper test... it's very easy... and will rule out the petcock as the problem completely... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429 |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Charon on 10/14/10 at 16:51:44 I think you are going to have to remove and clean the carburetor. Don't waste your time with miracle carb cleaning additives - they are very unlikely to help. Plain old gasoline is just about as good a solvent as you can get. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by bill67 on 10/14/10 at 17:57:52 ThumperKat it sounds like something in the carb is sticking Sea Foam will clean the jets and lube the slide and float,You start taking things apart and you will have problems. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Routy on 10/15/10 at 04:54:27 Quote: Just turning the petcock to "prime" will not work as a test,... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- If the engine is starving for fuel, (defined as "carb running dry") switching to prime for sure will work as a test to see if the problem is the vacuum sourse being too low (for whatever reason) to hold the petcock valve open. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/15/10 at 06:19:05 Serobot tends to think in terms of leaky or torn rubber diaphragms (one issue of many that exist with the petcock) and he likes his "tee in the vac tube, block off the carb port, run it in Prime test because it likely is the best test to eliminate "petcock as a whole" from your list of issues. Routy tends to think "low fuel flow due to stiff rubber" (one of the many petcock issues) Verslagen tends to want you to go rebuild the whole thing using a rebuild kit he found for about $22 shipped I tend to want you to yank the whole failure prone thing and stick in a simple mechanical Raptor petcock that simply doesn't have these many different failure modes (and the whole host of different performance symptoms that they cause) We all think the petcock causes a lot of symptoms that we don't want to chase through simply to find "its the petcock again". By running in prime you simply get some decent gas flow temporarily that lets us know that that portion of things is working or not. If in result you suddenly go black smoke rich or spill gasoline all over your bike from the air box, that tells us if your petcock diaphragm is split or torn. This too is a valid diagnostic test that tells us which part of the petcock has failed this time. Serobot's tee test is good for eliminating "petcock as a whole" as an issue, this one lets you judge which portion has failed. Both work. This one is a little more brutal messy though. Come on guys, we're making chicken soup here -- not borsch. http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/mly0340l.jpg ================= Bill wants you to put seafoam in your bike to lubricate and clean your carb -- he believes seafoam has magical healing properties so he keeps telling people to put in way too much (low was 25% of the float bowl, high was "fill it up") which makes their bikes smoke some and run kinda funny. This is good in Bill's world, but in normal reality it just fogs up the water while other folks are trying to do troubleshooting based on what the bike is doing now. Honesty requires me to state "it worked last time", so I will. Swacking the bowl a few times with the handle end of a big screw driver works too (and it costs a lot less and doesn't take 1.5 days) but filling up your bowl with seafoam does free up a float and needle assembly. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Boofer on 10/15/10 at 18:48:04 I use Seafoam. But I only use an ounce/gallon, as directed. I believe it cleans off varnish from the inside of the carb. After this varnish gets thick enough, it can hamper your engine. Seafoam can also CAUSE problems by causing heavy buildup to flake off and clog things up. And I will most likely get a Raptor petcock one of these days. We ride in so many different states in different weather with different oils at different speeds and different octane/grades of fuel....If it works for you, I am happy. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Routy on 10/15/10 at 19:07:28 I'm not an additive sorta person, but w/ nothing to loose, I doubled up on seafoam in my boat motor that had a serious carb problem. I have now had it out 3 times a total of 18 hrs, and it hasn't missed a beat. I can't prove the seafoam fixed it, but it sure didn't hurt it. Moral of the story,....don't knock Bill and his seafoam till you prove it don't work. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by bill67 on 10/15/10 at 19:13:34 +11111111111 |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/16/10 at 08:41:27 Yes Bill, truth is -- And it is a FACT that putting a bowl full of seafoam into a carburetor with a stuck float did unstick it. It really did happen .... I am a reluctant witness. And the user did remember to drain the seafoam out; of the bowl before trying to start the bike (which was a good thing because it never would have started on 100% seafoam). It is also a fact that a couple of good whacks with the handle end of a big screwdriver to the bottom of the carb bowl will do the same thing (without spending 1.5 days waiting and $8 for the can of seafoam) ..... but who are we reality mongers to be injecting nasty old reality into a good seafoam story like this one? ;D ;D ;D |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by bill67 on 10/16/10 at 09:00:35 That big screwdriver works temporary, but doesn't lube it to keep it from sticking again. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by drums1 on 10/16/10 at 09:17:33 Jeez, sometimes this place gets to sounding like Romper Room. In my case I had rebuilt the dam carb 3 times. And a fourth to recheck the floats. I did a rebuild kit on pet thingy, with a new vacuum line, and that didn't work either. Then I did the plugging of the vacuum source thing while running on prime. It worked. I haven't been able to afford a Raptor yet, but I've put 2,000 miles on this summer the way it is. Hey guys--whatever works go with it, but lets not condemn everyone elses methods. Some work, some don't. It's called diagnosing and testing. Sooner or later one method or another will lead to the fix. I haven't tried the Sea Foam yet either, as it is too dam expensive. But after rebuilding 3 times, you wouldn't think it would need it anyway. Nuf said. My 2 cents. [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Serowbot on 10/16/10 at 09:21:31 3721263E2062530 wrote:
Proper test... Turning to prime, only checks the vacuum line,... Why do a test that only rules out half the possibilities?... Block the vacuum tap, and turn to prime,... if that makes no difference, the petcock is not the problem... no way shape or form... if it fixes the problem, you have saved yourself a lot of trouble... I'm not tending to see leak instead of starvation,... I'm recommending a simple test that will check for both... Why do half a test, and leave people thinking that they've ruled out the petcock as a possibility when they haven't?... |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Boofer on 10/16/10 at 10:39:44 Romper Room? LOL "I see Versy, I see Serry, I see Boofer, I see Bill, Boofer! Quit putting additives in the Kool Aid!" Sorry, I couldn't help it. I am going to be a Do Bee from now on. Or was that Captain Kangaroo? Drums, you must be really old. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/16/10 at 12:11:13 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=td1KAgrYUGA[/media] Now which kiddie is which? I know I had a special day !!! Did you? |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Routy on 10/16/10 at 20:29:13 I have a simple question,....only because I've not had it happen,...... What happens when the diaphram in the petcock ruptures while the engine is running ? |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by ratz on 10/16/10 at 20:49:13 Oh,I know the answer to this one! The engine runs very rich,very quickly.On mine,it was black smoke rich! I guess a smaller hole would be less rich,but rich nonetheless. It's interesting because the carb gets starved for fuel,but fuel is being sucked straight into the intake boot,so the carb just becomes an air-metering device. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/17/10 at 02:15:42 OK, how about a Unified Field Theory, ;) oops I meant Unified Petcock Test Method. Proposed Put no more that a quarter can of Seafoam into a full tank of gasoline, pull the vac line from the carb, stick a golf tee in it, cap the vac port, run your bike in Prime (making sure you follow the cast in place arrow on the lever) and only call us back AFTER you run out the entire can of Seafoam. (that's 4 tankfuls of gas, or about a month of analysis time) We can call it the Sero-Billistic "totally thorough" method of forensic investigation ..... ;D .... after doing this you'll actually know something to tell us. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Routy on 10/17/10 at 05:12:34 Ok, this is the answer I would expect. What I'm trying to understand is,..... If the diaphram ruptures, it would no longer hold the valve open, so where is any of this fuel coming from that is making the engine run rich, and supposedly filling the air box w/ fuel ? I mean,....... We have 2 senerios here, a slight leak of fuel that the engine would easily digest, and may go undetected for some time, or a major leak that would shut off the fuel supply completely. Where am I thinking wrong ? 2C3F2A2430382C3F39305E0 wrote:
|
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/10 at 05:15:31 If the diaphragm leaks & allows fuel to get to the part where the vacuum is applied, then it'll suck fuel into the vac line. Making it run rich. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/17/10 at 05:30:38 Point he's making is if the diaphragm is holed enough to richen out the combustion process badly, it likely has too big of a hole to apply suction to the spring counterbalanced fuel cut off seat -- the gas flow would then be cut off and all would die. Except of course for the gasoline that was sucking back into the system through the vac tube and getting atomized by the venturi effect, so yes maybe it could keep running. Mebbie. (be fun to start though, although using full choke might jest pull it off if there was still gas left in the bowl that is) Durndifino !! Likely answer is "just how durn big is the tear/rent/wrinkle/hole/diaphragm surface de-lamination zone?" If it were just beginning (or is tiny) then yes the durn thing would likely still start and run but would act all wonky in a variety of different ways ..... :-? Sheesh, and you wonder why step #1 in the Oldfeller investigation method is to take the durn stock petcock off and bounce it off the wall a time or two? You can chase LOTS of pretty butterflies with just the failure modes we know about that take place in the stock petcock. You start mixing the effects, the opportunities multiply accordingly. The good news is the Sero-Billistic Unified Test Method would still remove all these issues and the bike would still run OK using the Unified Test Method. .... and Bill sez after a month of running his magic elixir that your float and needle would be all luby duby and your carbie warbie would be all whistley twistely clean inside. ;D ;D ;D (I watched my romper room today, didn't you?) |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by verslagen1 on 10/17/10 at 08:48:56 geessses, where's my magic glasses for the finey whiney print. ::) |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/10 at 09:05:56 (I watched my romper room today, didn't you?) Watch!!?? I dont "Watch" Romper Room, I Live it! I have a pair of Romper Stompers made of 4 cans, Tall Suckers, as Romper Stompers go. No one else around here has Near as Nice a setup. I am the envy of 'em all! |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Routy on 10/17/10 at 09:12:37 O F does get my point. It seems that there is barely enough vacuum to hold the valve open (I have seen it on a vacuum gauge) w/ a perfect diaphram, let alone one w/ a crack in it big enough to cause a rich/bad running engine. One more thing,........ there have been some here that have had WOT fuel starvation that switching to prime fixed it. But yet changing the vacuum hose didn't solve the problem, so the problem was blamed onto a faulty valve. They then changed out to a Raptor which fixed the problem, proving that the valve was at fault ???????? Maybe not. W/ a limited vacuum supply to start w/, how many of these are running just plain low manifold vac,....because the compression isn't what it should be ?? (for whatever reason) I am certain that any drop in compression,....leaky valves or rings, is first going to show up as a petcock shutting down because of low manifold vacuum. I just feel like these OEM petcocks could be getting unfairly critisized in some cases. I'm also thinking that Suzi would do something different if they had as many failures come into the shops as has been reported here. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Serowbot on 10/17/10 at 09:47:23 747B617A66607371797760120 wrote:
It's not just Suzuki,... do a net search and you'll find the same problem among many brands of bike... |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Phelonius on 10/17/10 at 10:01:00 At least the site now lets us speak of this problem without changing the subject to pet thingy. Phelonius ;D |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Serowbot on 10/17/10 at 10:25:58 5169646D6E6F687472010 wrote:
I always thought it was rude to pet your thingy in public anyway... :-?... |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/17/10 at 12:20:39 .... A pet thingy? Where the heck did I last see one of those? ...... mmmmmm ??? Warning -- not work appropriate -- Youtube slipped up on this one ... or somebody snuck in a European version. Pert, ain't she? [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otY0bDX8FhA[/media] (she can pet my blinkin' thingy any time she wants to ...) |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by drums1 on 10/18/10 at 06:28:03 pet thingy.....pet cork.....fuelcock.....petcock.....just testing..... That thing sqirting water on her looks like my giant pets co.....well you get the idea. By the way, I'm only 54, but I remember Romper Room. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/10 at 07:38:38 But do you know what Romper Stompers were? I remember them B/C my little sister just Haaaad to have her some O that. She was too much of a klutz to manage them.. hardeeharrharrhaaarrrr! |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/18/10 at 10:21:33 I wuz a Captain Kangaroo man, myself -- the old non-color version. Howdy Doody was current back then too. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/10 at 10:33:22 Ahhh, Capn Rooo, I remember him well. I also remember him gettin busted for pot, after I was grown. I spose Ol Mister Greenjeans really WAS a farmer.. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/18/10 at 17:54:55 Justin, who do we blame for how we turned out? Pot blowing Kangaroo and Mr. Queer jeans or that ever-failing Coyote? Tom and Jerry and the Three Stooges have got to take a little bit of the blame too. Spanky and the Rascals Gang taught me how to get into trouble and Amos and Andy taught me the first reaction to a bad situation is a really good We were the first TV addicted generation, born and raised in front of the tube. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by drums1 on 10/18/10 at 18:03:25 And let us not forget the immortal BOZO, and The GRAND PRIZE GAME!!! Did anyone ever make that dam ball in bucket #6 ? |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/10 at 20:31:31 54777F7D7E77777E691B0 wrote:
I recently watched some Amos & Andy. The one I saw was actually pretty sophisticated in political terms. Tho, the point you make IS valid. I watched TV, but I lived outside more than in the house. Had the only house for 5 blocks, Greens Bayou across the street, football, tree climbing, fishing, exploring, WAY plenty to do & I was all Boy.. |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/20/10 at 01:10:10 Here are your Amos and Andy Questions of the Day ..... 1) Was Amos and Andy really the longest running series that has ever been? (counting the entire continuous span of radio years and TV years of course) 2) Were the original Amos and Andy black? 3) Was the original Amos and Andy an intentional spoof on "stereotypical" Hollywood Negros? Or were they dead serious in thinking they had depicted realistic 1920's 1930's black people? (here is some source material for you to peruse) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLcyymCmXRg&feature=fvst[/media] |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by bill67 on 10/20/10 at 01:16:26 I didn't watch Amos and Andy when I was young we didn't have a colored TV. :) |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by Oldfeller on 10/20/10 at 02:23:29 Bill, what color did your ears turn when you listened to them on the radio? |
|
Title: Re: Carb? Fuelcock? Arrrg! Post by bill67 on 10/20/10 at 05:04:29 I guess they were only on radio. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |