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9 11 (Read 1032 times)
Serowbot
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Re: 9 11
Reply #45 - 09/15/10 at 12:19:36
 
Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 09/15/10 at 11:38:10:
Serowbot -
You and I respectfully disagree from time to time, but we're together on this one.

Wink...

Yup,... I can think of no better way to get a perfect pancake collapse, than to drop a 30 story building directly down onto an 80 story one....
...which is essentially what happened....
...it almost has to drop straight down, because each successive lower floor is an intact supporting structure until it gets crushed.... like a vertical domino...

... and the beams didn't have to melt,... just loose their temper and weaken...  then the 30 stories above do the job...

The number of conspiracy theories are always proportional to the difference in size of the event and the cause...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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LostArtist
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Re: 9 11
Reply #46 - 09/15/10 at 12:32:42
 
justin, the towers didn't fall over, the collapsed, like when you stamp on a soda can to compress it, if you have a structure, hollow in the middle and one side is compromised(weakened), the top will stay contained within the structures original footprint, as the top fell through the building it demolished the supports holding the rest of the building up. the fire was estimated to burn at 1100 degrees F, which is hot enough to weaken the steel, not melt it, but weaken it to about half it's strength, this is how structures collapse from the top down

Quote:
"Melted" Steel
Claim: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength—and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."


http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/debunking-911-myths-...
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bill67
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Re: 9 11
Reply #47 - 09/15/10 at 13:24:50
 
LostArtist get a soda pop can and shoot a hole in it with a 22 one inch down for the top,And it will collapse just like the twin towers Roll Eyes You want even have to stomp on it. Shocked
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william h krumpen
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Re: 9 11
Reply #48 - 09/15/10 at 14:24:57
 
bill67 wrote on 09/15/10 at 13:24:50:
LostArtist get a soda pop can and shoot a hole in it with a 22 one inch down for the top,And it will collapse just like the twin towers Roll Eyes You want even have to stomp on it. Shocked


dude, I'm not even going to start explaining how wrong your physics are with that comparison. but I'll admit I made a bad analogy with the soda can, sorry. Serowbot did a much better job of explaining it
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Jerry Eichenberger
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Re: 9 11
Reply #49 - 09/15/10 at 14:30:47
 
LA -

Bill likes his one-liners to try to counter a complex posting.  It must be his sense of humor, since he can't begin to think he's actually saying something factually true.

Take a look at the recent discussions on the Tall Table about human vs. animal mental capacity.
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Re: 9 11
Reply #50 - 09/15/10 at 14:48:46
 
We've all seen building implosions on the evening news.  The reporters have been fed a lot of info from the demolition companies about how this is a technically difficult precision operation and everything has to be done "just so" or the building will fall over like a felled redwood and cause destruction for several city blocks.

Then they fire the charges and the thing practically telescopes in on itself.

Ever see a headline showing the resultant damage when one these demolition jobs is botched and the building topples?  I haven't either.  That's because it's not such a precision operation after all.

In short, once the vertical collapse of a building begins, it continues.
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Every difference of opinion is not a difference of principle. Thomas Jefferson

When I look fast, I'm not smooth and I am going slowly. And when I look slow, I am smooth and going fast. Alain Pros
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bill67
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Re: 9 11
Reply #51 - 09/15/10 at 14:55:15
 
Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 09/15/10 at 14:30:47:
LA -

Bill likes his one-liners to try to counter a complex posting.  It must be his sense of humor, since he can't begin to think he's actually saying something factually true.

Take a look at the recent discussions on the Tall Table about human vs. animal mental capacity.

Jerry I have been a builder all my life My dad was a builder their no way those building would fall like they did with the planes hitting them,And they were hit at difference levels but fell in about the same length of time.
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william h krumpen
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OK.... so what's the
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Re: 9 11
Reply #52 - 09/15/10 at 15:07:13
 
I just went out in my back yard, and shot a 22 bullet through the top 1/3 of a tin can,...
...then I dropped a 30 story building on it...

Yup,... it's flat... Huh...

Grin Grin Grin... that's science!...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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bill67
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Re: 9 11
Reply #53 - 09/15/10 at 16:16:06
 
Jerry Eichenberger wrote on 09/15/10 at 14:30:47:
LA -

Bill likes his one-liners to try to counter a complex posting.  It must be his sense of humor, since he can't begin to think he's actually saying something factually true.

Take a look at the recent discussions on the Tall Table about human vs. animal mental capacity.

Are you saying I'm closer to and animal than human brain wise.
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william h krumpen
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Re: 9 11
Reply #54 - 09/15/10 at 18:42:17
 
Let's laugh at the conspiracy theories a whole lot because we like our make-believe ...the stories that president Bush and uncle cheney told us. Those are real good stories too, ...and did you know that uncle C once shot a friend of his? would have killed him too if it was buckshot instead of birdshot. I like the real make-believe stories more than the theories...!- bunch of liars. Grin


At least conspiracy theories are trying to get at the truth. The other side is trying to cover it up!
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tcreeley

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Re: 9 11
Reply #55 - 09/15/10 at 18:53:03
 
+1
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Re: 9 11
Reply #56 - 09/15/10 at 19:33:19
 
Star, I have no idea what you are driving at. When hunting birds, you use birdshot.
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
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Re: 9 11
Reply #57 - 09/15/10 at 19:47:44
 
tcreeley wrote on 09/15/10 at 18:42:17:
Let's laugh at the conspiracy theories a whole lot because we like our make-believe ...the stories that president Bush and uncle cheney told us. Those are real good stories too, ...and did you know that uncle C once shot a friend of his? would have killed him too if it was buckshot instead of birdshot. I like the real make-believe stories more than the theories...!- bunch of liars. Grin


At least conspiracy theories are trying to get at the truth. The other side is trying to cover it up!

I'm not saying they weren't heartless liars and crooks with seriously warped moralities....
I'm just saying the logistics, physics, and complexity of the 911 conspiracy theories aren't realistic, and don't hold water...

They may have known in advance (but, I doubt it),... and they most certainly jumped on the opportunity and used it to further an evil, and misguided war, and manipulate the American people...
So,.. +1 to that... Wink...
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LostArtist
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Re: 9 11
Reply #58 - 09/15/10 at 20:58:04
 
^
|

what he said

(thinking of making that my default answer for just about everything . . . )
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Serowbot
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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: 9 11
Reply #59 - 09/15/10 at 22:20:41
 
LostArtist wrote on 09/15/10 at 20:58:04:
^
|

what he said

(thinking of making that my default answer for just about everything . . . )


Grin... great minds think alike, 'ay Lost... Wink...
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Ludicrous Speed !... ... Huh...
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