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this one for believers,are there any left ? (Read 1036 times)
bill67
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #15 - 09/02/10 at 11:17:20
 
I don't know about that after life,theirs been a lot of people that have died in the last 100 of thousands of years,We probability want be able to find in one we know. Sad
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #16 - 09/02/10 at 12:36:26
 
Bill that might be a good thing Smiley
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #17 - 09/02/10 at 14:26:58
 
Mick

Let me answer a couple of your questions.  Adam had other sons and daughters (Genesis 5:3).  While it might seem odd for us to marry our sisters, things were not always like they are now.  In the beginning, with a limited population, that was necessary for the population of the earth.  Later, God did forbid close relatives marrying, Leviticus 18.

What form do we take in the afterlife?  I honestly do not understand all about it.  Paul writes about the resurrection body in I Corinthians 15:35 and following.  He tells us there that we will be changed, that what is now is not what will be.  He uses the illustration of planting a seed, that seed dies and a plant comes forth, not another seed.  He points out that different flesh is different; animals, birds and fish.  Heavenly bodies are different from earthly bodies.  He tells us the bodies we have now are perishable, the bodies we have then will be imperishable.  After his resurrection, Jesus as able to enter a room with the doors locked, John 20:19.  He also ate broiled fish, Luke 24:42.  I guess we will have bodies like Jesus did, but I do not know or understand it all.

Which wife will you have?  Jesus was asked that very same question in Matthew 22:23-33.  He said that in the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage, they will be like the angels.  This goes back to the answer above.

Others have mentioned the Crusades and other atrocities done in the name of Christianity.  I agree many evil things have been done in the name of God by people claiming to act for him.  However, much evil has been done by atheists as well.  That just shows that people are people, we are all capable of perverting anything to our own ends.  Maybe there is something to the fact we expect more for Christians.  I am appalled and shamed by some of the things done in the name of God.  It was Gandhi who said, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”  Shame on us as followers of Christ, we need to live lives worthy of our calling, Ephesians 4:1.

I cannot say I have read the books you mention, but I have read others like them, as well as books examining the evidence and reaching other conclusions.  I am certain you are as convinced of your beliefs as I am of mine.  I see the world around me and conclude this did not just happen, there had to be a creator behind it.  That is one of the reasons for my faith.  I will gladly continue this conversation in personal messages with anyone who is interested.  The offer for devotions is still open, just give me an email and I will gladly add you to the list.  If you later want to be taken off, just let me know and it will be no problem.  

And Serowbot, I am not a Christian because I am a preacher.  I am a preacher because I am a Christian.  Wink
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forrest
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #18 - 09/02/10 at 18:08:20
 
Mick, why are you so concerned about this?  You obviously do not believe so it should not be relevant to you.  Yet you spend so much time trying to convince others that there is no God.  Does this mean you are subtely questioning your athiesm?  Or are you just a cantakerous old fart with too much time on your hands?  Wink
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mick
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #19 - 09/02/10 at 18:56:17
 
forrest wrote on 09/02/10 at 18:08:20:
Mick, why are you so concerned about this?  You obviously do not believe so it should not be relevant to you.  Yet you spend so much time trying to convince others that there is no God.  Does this mean you are subtely questioning your athiesm?  Or are you just a cantakerous old fart with too much time on your hands?  Wink

Cantakerous,lots of time to read and become more and more convinced that I am right.   I know you don't need it but I truly feel sorry for you,you must spen alot of time praying and going to church,all wasted ,what do you think when you die you will turn to me and say "
na na na na naaa na. I was right,it's not going to happen.
When you die you just close your eyes and go to sleep,no more no less.
Here is a little stat for you ,Of all US voters (no children) 17.1% are atheist.  Of all the members of the National Academy of sciences,
93% are atheist,what does that tell you ?  that 93% of scienctist are stupid ? I don't think so.
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #20 - 09/02/10 at 20:27:02
 
Mick

The ansure you ask for is recorded three (3) times  by three different people .   Could it be the Holy Sprit is reaching out to you ?    

Your ansure:
Matt. 22: 23-33
Mark 12:18-27
Luke 20: 27-40

Their is only Two (2) forces in the World

Be carefull which one you aline yourself with !



And Bill your to far along in years to be slapping the Holy Sprit around and keep getting away with it .
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I see and feel the Holy Spirit in the world , as does anybody who has eyes to see. How far Man's corruption reaches into Organized Religion , we may never know
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #21 - 09/02/10 at 21:06:47
 
Aside from the scientific trend towards the adoption of the "theory of Intelligent Design" I would ask: "What's the downside of believing in eternal life by salvation through Jesus Christ?" Death and decay in the ground like Mick believes is man's ultimate demise anyway? The UPSIDE is a promise of eternal life! Now, if one chooses to believe and Mick is right, well, we end up as Mick predicts anyway. HOWEVER, if you choose NOT TO BELIEVE, and there IS salvation and life-eternal by accepting that Christ died for our sins, then you're doomed to eternal regret because you would not believe. Personally, I'd rather gamble on the rewards of eternal life and be right, than gamble against it and be wrong. No one has ever been able to articulate an explanation to me of the benefits of gambling AGAINST God's promise as written in John 3:16.
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mpescatori
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #22 - 09/02/10 at 21:32:48
 
OK Boys and girls, haaang on a second !!!

prechermike wrote on 09/02/10 at 14:26:58:
Mick
...
What form do we take in the afterlife?  I honestly do not understand all about it.  Paul writes about the resurrection body in I Corinthians 15:35 and following.  He tells us there that we will be changed, that what is now is not what will be.  He uses the illustration of planting a seed, that seed dies and a plant comes forth, not another seed.  He points out that different flesh is different; animals, birds and fish.  Heavenly bodies are different from earthly bodies.  He tells us the bodies we have now are perishable, the bodies we have then will be imperishable.  

 I am appalled and shamed by some of the things done in the name of God.  It was Gandhi who said, “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”


If only KJV Bible were an accurate translation (there are appalling mistranslations which have caused great grief) we would read Jesus never ever preached the resurrection of bodies from the dead, he preached the reincarnation of the souls of the just into new bodies... which, if you will allow, is a wholly different matter.

Incidentally, this matches Buddhist and Hindu teachings...


Quote:
...
I am not a Christian because I am a preacher.  I am a preacher because I am a Christian.  Wink


This is a wonderful declaration of faith, and I cannot but agree to it.

An 18th century philosopher said "Difference in opinion does not defference in values".

Remember this.

Today I happened in a "Bible Study Store" searching for a funny birthday card for my kid brother, who is a Catholic Priest.
(Me, I'd give him a card with Pamela Anderson on it, and he'd understand my humor, but would the parishioners? So, lt's find something ... sensible...)
Well, I happenend to find a T-shirt with a quote from Matthew's Gospel praising those who are persecuted because of their faith...
...and I remembered the Brou-haha because somebody wants to build a Mosque in Tennessee???

Tell me, guys, how long is a piece of string ?
How long must a piece of string be to measure the distance between here and the stars?

Get it ?

if somebody has had a different Revelation, but abides by the Natural Law (also known as The Golden Rule) just leave them alone and make them friends !!!

Now, about Precher Mike's dilemma:

Can a fish concieve the reality of a bird ?

just because a fish cannot concieve the principle of a bird, does that mean birds do not exist ?

Can a caterpillar concieve a butterfly ?

What the caterpillar calls "death", the world welcomes as "butterfly"

So...

Why should we be afraid of... death ?

It isn't death, it is merely a metamorphosis...

Wink
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mick
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #23 - 09/02/10 at 22:44:25
 
the golden rule "he who has the gold rules"
Are Cathlics against incineration ,why ?
So where is heaven ? and what size is it ?   who will feed all these dead people that have become alive again,? who will quench there thirst ? I sure hope we all don't have to start work again,another 75 years in another hell ?
And the biggie ,who will be making motor cycles ?
And if we cant have a nice woman,a decent bike,and some very old scotch whisky,I really don't want to go
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mick
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #24 - 09/02/10 at 23:11:11
 
MMRanch wrote on 09/02/10 at 20:27:02:
Mick

The ansure you ask for is recorded three (3) times  by three different people .   Could it be the Holy Sprit is reaching out to you ?    

Your ansure:
Matt. 22: 23-33
Mark 12:18-27
Luke 20: 27-40

Their is only Two (2) forces in the World

Be carefull which one you aline yourself with !



And Bill your to far along in years to be slapping the Holy Sprit around and keep getting away with it .

Well Matt,Mark,and Luke were just ordenary guys adding there 2 cents worth in the old bible ,the same book that was not even started until 600 years after JC died .  Just look at American history look at the stories of Jessie James,Billy the Kid, the Daltons,bonnie and Clyde,
every story you read about those guys,they have been turned into folk hero's,rob the rich ,give to the poor,kinda like robin hood.
So given that I suppose you think the bible is gospel (pun intended)
truth,per leez.
PS, I am older than bill ,haven't you noticed the older and wiser people get, the less they believe in fairy stories, look at the 97%
of scientists who are wiser and atheist ,the general public 17% athiest
My local cathlic church had 5 cars in the parking lot last Sunday morning, bad example,cathlic priests are very naughty.
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #25 - 09/03/10 at 06:11:07
 
the same book that was not even started until 600 years after JC died

Corection :  the books were started befor the ones who walked with Crist died,

So did thay live 600 years ?

And the fella who started the most churches , then wrote letters to them was a bigger atheist before God brought him down   than you are my friend.

Sometimes I think there are way to many of those letters recorded in the collection called the Bible.    And it seem like Paul's personality show through way too much.   I tend to think some of Paul's letter turn people off with some of his ideas.

But a personal relationship with the Holy Sprit , and reading Paul's letters are two different things  without compair.

I suppect everyone has experenced the Sprit of God moving in their life at some time or another.   Question is did you reconize it ?
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I see and feel the Holy Spirit in the world , as does anybody who has eyes to see. How far Man's corruption reaches into Organized Religion , we may never know
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #26 - 09/03/10 at 10:14:53
 
The Old Testament existed prior to Jesus' birth. His coming was spoken of.
If a mans heart isnt touched by God, then how will he believe? How can anyone believe something exists when theyve had no reason to? I know people who claim to be Christian, whose lives, actions, words, etc, would make anyone just watching them doubt God is real. Ive met a devout Atheist who was one of the most honorable, honest, clean in words & actions man Ive met. Last I talked to him, he was starting to question his atheism. I HOPE I had something to do with that.

Ive seen so many regular church attendees, people who say theyre Christians, who I dont trust for anything. They say one thing & do another. Kind of a dilema for the war hawk Christians. Self defense is okay in the Bible, & protecting ones family is called for, not allowed. If a man wont take care of his family, hes worse than the infidel..

I can understand how someone who doesnt believe in God would use the sorry examples of Christians as proof God doesnt exist. Sadly, that wont make God go away. Choosing some mans behavior to prove or disprove whether or not God exists is pretty dangerous. The safe thing to do would be to pray to God for an awakening, to pray for the ability to see the world thru eyes that see the hand of God in action. Asking for wisdom & clear eyes, to see? Imagine the heart of a father whose son came to him & asked his Dad to help him know the truth. If a Dad had the ability to give his knowledge of the world to his son & save him so many "hard knocks", wouldnt he do it? OUr Father will answer such prayer. Is my lifescrewed up? Yep, why?, Cuz Im not a good listener.
Please, let me assure you, God is very real. I discovered that truth at age3. I wasnt taught it by Mommy, something happened to me. Took me till I was 21 to even remember what happened & another bunch of years to get prayers answered & problems solved. Ive had way too many spiritual things happen to not believe in God,. Even IF what happened at age3 hadnt happened, had I never remembered it, just based on a couple events in my life, if I had been an Atheist , I owuld have to really sit back & consider that.

Seriously, is there nothing in life that makes you wonder if atheism is correct? Seriously?
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #27 - 09/03/10 at 11:02:55
 
The only day of the year I pray is Halloween because of scared of the HOLY GHOST.
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #28 - 09/03/10 at 14:14:44
 
+1 Mick.  

I'll say that I have been involved in the church a good part of my life (Baptist), but the older I got, the more things just didn't make sense to me.  The more questions I asked, the more confused I became.  Finally, I just realized the right path for me was to chose D) None of the above.   Cool

The one question I had asked, that no one was able to answer was:  What if I go to Heaven, yet for some reason my wife or son does not go. How am I supposed to live happily ever after knowing that they are in internal pain and suffering?

Jive
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bill67
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Re: this one for believers,are there any left ?
Reply #29 - 09/03/10 at 14:37:20
 
I went to Sunday school from 4 years old,Was in the Junior choir when I got older,Went to Bible camp for a week two years in a row,Had free movies at the church every Saturday afternoon,Had Youth fellowship every Sunday night from 6th grade on,When I was 45 my wife had the Mormon people come to our house once a week for a little over a year,The more I learned the less I believed,Sorry but I cannot lie I don't believe in the it at all.
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