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Clutch Basket Removal (don't if you can avoid it) (Read 1239 times)
thumps
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Clutch Basket Removal (don't if you can avoid it)
01/08/10 at 10:10:35
 
I give up.  Both my Clymer's and the Factory Service Manual describe taking the clutch hub off with tools that are just not out there to be had.  The other option is to have an impact gun with the correct socket (which is also a no-go for me).  Does anyone know if there is a way to get the clutch hub off with common hand tools and some ingenuity?  Or am I screwed and have to take her to the dealer?  I just bought a Barnetts Clutch Kit to supplement the chain drive conversion that I've been running (the stock 11,000 mile clutch slips, no matter where I adjust it).  Any help or ideas would be appreciated.  

Oh, and no matter how I punch in the search terms 'clutch hub' on this site, I come up with nothing...I MUST ADMIT THOUGH: I AM A TOTAL KNOB WHEN IT COMES TO LOOKING UP PAST POSTS ON THIS SITE!!  I remember the first savage site seemed a bit easier to use in that respect...Anyways, thanks to anyone who can help-thumps
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« Last Edit: 12/08/12 at 12:57:53 by Oldfeller »  
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #1 - 01/08/10 at 10:45:41
 
First step, stuff a paper towel into the rabbit holes at the bottom that lead to the inner case area so NOTHING CAN GET DOWN THE RABBIT HOLES.

You don't need all the specialty tool stuff mentioned in the Clymers manual.  A nickle and a big socket will work just fine.

Second step is to jam the gears with a nickle so they can't rotate.  You will destroy the nickle, but you can afford it compared to all the specialty tools called for in Clymers.  

Bend the flange on the retaining washer back out of the way.  I think the nut/shaft is a regular right hand thread and it requires a large socket.  I bought mine at Autozone for $4.88 which was a reasonable price for a single large metric socket.  YOU CAN USE AN INCH SOCKET that is "close enough" if you happen to own one.  You will need a breaker bar and a large hammer to get the action started, but once it breaks free the nut rotates freely.

Here is where you needed our advice.  Hidden behind the clutch basket is a large flanged washer and a small drive pin that engages the oil pump gear.  The pin will fall out as soon as the clutch basket moves and the orientation of the flanged washer is VITAL so you must remember how it was placed when you go to put it back.  Neither item is covered in any detail in Clymers but these pieces can scrap out your engine if not put back correctly.  You must put the pin back correctly and put the flange washer back in correctly or you will scrap out your motor.

Read this thread.   Read all of it as it is a "discovery" thread that makes no sense until you read it all and find out what was discovered.  I fumbled around a bit until the light bulb came on (and it shows pretty much in the choppy logic flow of the thread).

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1246336685/0#0

There are several threads on screwing up taking apart the clutch.  Search them out and read them.

============

Lastly, I bet you don't need to replace your clutch even it it is slipping.

It is NOT worn out ....  (trust me on this one)

All you need to do is change your push rod to a 1mm longer push rod.

You just wasted all the time taking it apart as far as you have already done and you really didn't need anything more expensive than a new gasket and a chunk of quarter inch drill rod (that you likely already own).

Wink


Search works fine, here are your instructions on how to use search.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1240751610/3#3



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Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #2 - 01/10/10 at 12:20:20
 
Okay.  So I replaced my clutch disks, clutch plates, and the springs with the Barnett's heavy duty clutch kit that is found on eBay.  The seller has quite a few Suzuki Savage items (Niche Cycle Supply) and their prices are fair.

Here's what I did, and here's what happened:

1. I soaked the new clutch disks in oil for two days.

2. Took off the clutch cover as directed by the Clymer manual.

3. Stuffed paper towels into the "rabbit holes" at the bottom of the  case, so that nothing can accidentally fall into them.

4. Removed the old clutch cover gasket, inspected it and made sure to put the two alignment dowels back into the case (as they tend to come off with the gasket).

5. I removed the old push pin, and measured it/compared it to the three I ordered from Suzuki...as it turns out, my bike came with the middle sized one of the three that are offered (44.5, 45.5, 46.5). My size is 45.5mm, I believe.

6. I put the bike in gear and reattached the foot brake (so that I can press down on the brake along with it being in gear to lock up the engine and rear wheel for hub-nut removal...read the rest though).

7. I removed the four clutch spring bolts, making sure to use a criss-cross loosening method.

8. This is where things got a little weird:  THE ENTIRE REASON I BELIEVED THAT I NEEDED A NEW CLUTCH, WAS BECAUSE I COULDN'T GET IT TO STOP SLIPPING...NO MATTER WHERE I HAD THE CABLE ADJUSTED. So, with the springs, and there hold-down plate removed, I went to flatten the clutch hub lock washer, and noticed that there was movement...meaning; I could move the lock washer back and forth, which means: THE HUB NUT WAS LOOSE!!!  And that of course is probably why my clutch was slipping, I think.

9. Since the hub nut was loose, and I already was half-way into the clutch replacement procedure, I went ahead flattened out the lock washer then took the nut the rest of the way off.

10. Next I removed the clutch disks, plates and pressure plate, leaving everything from the outer thrust washer back, on the transmission shaft...NOTE: Both the factory service manual, the Clymer manual, and a thread or two on this site, say to remove the entire clutch basket, to replace the disks and plates...however, as noted in a few warning threads about clutch removal, when the entire clutch basket is removed, the oil pump drive gear and it's retention pin fall off in one's hand if removed as an entire unit.

11. To avoid having to mess with the oil pump drive gear, it's retention pin, the shaft spacer and the inner most thrust washer, I left the clutch basket outer housing on the shaft, just removing the pressure plate, the disks, and the plates, as stated before.  I believe this to be the better method for servicing/replacing the clutch components.

12. The only thing that did come off without me telling it to was the outer most thrust washer, so I wiped it off and immediately placed it back on the shaft, where it had fallen from.

13. Once I had the clutch hub components in my hand, I carefully walked them over to my work bench and placed them down on top of it making sure to keep all of the parts squeezed together.

14. Next I took each of my old disks and old plates off one at a time and set them to the side, making sure to carefully stack each one on top of the other as they were when in the clutch hub.  Once they were all out, I flipped the stack over to observe what was what and how they were put together when in the hub.

15. I then proceeded to restack the new oil-drenched disks and plates back onto the clutch hub in the order illustrated by the Clymer and factory service books. As I stacked the parts together, I made sure to keep them all aligned with one another...both the disks with there "tangs" and the plates with there "teeth".

16.  Once I was confident the hub was identically stacked like the old stack I had just removed, I picked the entire hub up (with pressure plate) and walked it over to the bike.

17. I then slid the stack onto the transmission shaft making sure to keep the plate "teeth" aligned with their inner grooves and the disk "tangs" aligned with their outer slots on the basket housing.

18. Once everything slid into place, I reattached the lock washer and the 32mm hub nut.

19. I torqued the 32mm hub nut to about 50 lb.ft, bent one side of the lock washer onto the nut, reattached the springs (new ones) yadda, yadda, yadda...basically everything in reverse...AND THEN.

20. I put the new 45.5mm push pin in, the cover back on with new gasket, buttoned everything up..filled her with oil, started it and adjusted the clutch to where I like it.

21. I took the bike out for a ride and it no longer slips, in fact  it grabs so well that it almost feels like I could pull a wheelie!!

22. The clutch (so far) seems to be working correctly.




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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #3 - 01/10/10 at 14:25:39
 
Well done, thou good and faithful self-service fixer-upper you ....

And good catch on the hub nut being loose being the cause of your symptoms ... we will start counting similar occurrences to see how that stacks up to the other clutch issues.
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Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #4 - 12/05/10 at 12:59:48
 
And how should one loosen the hub nut when the engine is out of the frame?
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #5 - 12/05/10 at 14:57:09
 
verslagen1 wrote on 12/05/10 at 13:35:26:
stick a penny in between the gear as you torque the nut.


Which gear? The clutch hub is spinning inside the outer housing. The plates aren't compressed.
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #6 - 12/05/10 at 15:26:57
 
MotoBuddha wrote on 12/05/10 at 14:57:09:
verslagen1 wrote on 12/05/10 at 13:35:26:
stick a penny in between the gear as you torque the nut.


Which gear? The clutch hub is spinning inside the outer housing. The plates aren't compressed.


Shown here is an alternate tool stuck in the primary gear...
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #7 - 12/05/10 at 17:01:55
 
Then something must be wrong with my bike.  The hub, nut and shaft turn even though the gear doesn't. See this little movie I made:

http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/?action=view&current=0580...
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #8 - 12/06/10 at 08:15:35
 

Dude, with no springs and no pressure you have no connection between steel and friction plates.
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Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #9 - 12/06/10 at 08:48:42
 
Duh. Which is why jamming the gears isn't the solution.

So the actual solutions is........? (And remember, the engine is out of the bike.)

If, as it says above, the magical Honda tool isn't available, then is there a work-around?  What do you guys do?

I'm thinking of geting a foot long piece of flat bar stock and drilling two holes in one end that match up to two of the four projection thingies. Then I'd bolt it in place and hold it to keep the hub from turning.
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #10 - 12/06/10 at 09:49:24
 
Trying to remember what I did.
Mine was loose, so I don't recall.
Does that plate engage with the drive pulley when in gear?
If so, put the belt on the pulley, trap a 1/4" pin between the belt and pulley, pinch the belt so it engages with the pulley well, then turn till the pin forces the belt against the case.
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #11 - 12/06/10 at 11:46:49
 

Is the front belt drive pulley still on the engine?

Does that plate and shaft engage with the drive pulley when in gear?

If so, put the belt on the pulley, trap a 1/4" pin between the belt and pulley, pinch the belt so it engages with the pulley well, then turn till the pin forces the belt against the case.

I may have used this technique to torque the nut back down.

I would be leary of the method you state, as that would load the basket at the top of the fingers and may tweak them.
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« Last Edit: 07/14/12 at 12:28:57 by Oldfeller »  

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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #12 - 12/06/10 at 15:11:01
 
Maybe it's time to pause and clarify terms and what I want accomplish, Oldfeller, because I get the feeling you're thinking of something else. I find pictures are useful.



I want to remove the hub, not the outer housing/basket, so I can replace the plates, which means removing the big ass nut.
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #13 - 12/07/10 at 16:44:41
 

Since you have taken everything else off and apart and pulled the belt, etc. out of play you really don't have very much to grab on to.

Even if you put the clutch springs back in and got friction inside the clutch again and jammed the gear like Verslagen has been trying to tell you to do, then you will likely be able to get some resistance to fight against when turning the nut.  Perhaps enough -- note which way loosen is on that nut, some are left handed nuts, some are right handed nuts.

Using the through shaft to engage the transmission and locking up the output shaft (pulley) has potential, but it will require crimping your belt tight around the pulley with vise grips, etc and jamming it somehow.

When you work with Clymers, it gives you a series of steps to follow in a definite series of sequential actions (now I think you know why).

I think you are all painted into a corner right now ....  be interesting to see how you get out without getting paint on your shoes.
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Stock silver 2002 ls650 with small saddle bags. Looks like Granny's old worn out bike, nothing special to it at all.
(all mods except BIG piston and carb change have been done, but do not show)
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Re: Clutch Basket Removal?
Reply #14 - 12/07/10 at 17:16:21
 
Putting the springs back in covers the nut I need to remove.

I was following the Clymer manual -- up to step 17A where it calls for the Honda tool.
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