SuzukiSavage.com - Calling Phelonius

BurnPgh

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Calling Phelonius
10/15/09 at 12:31:58

I've been intrigued with the Ural sidecar since I started riding a few years ago. The last few weeks I've been diving into research about them and then realized...I can get a Ural Tourist (1WD) for $10k to ride year round, OR I could get a new(er) s40 and a hack for WAY less and still ride year round. SO...Im getting another savage and a hack. This will be my first forray into sidecars. Im farmiliar with the offbeat handling characteristics but I have no idea how to actually go about mounting a hack and doing a good job of it. Care to offer any intructions or reccomend suggested reading?

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suslik83

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Re: Calling Phelonius
Reply #1 - 10/15/09 at 13:14:24

sorry for OT but still...
I do have a bike with sidecar...in winter period it`s fun to ride with that...still i ride with only a frame of it! bike is also a russian made iz planeta 5 with 350cc two-stroke singel! anyway in baltics we can choose what kind of sidecar to use - russian sidecar doesnot weight much (60-80 kg) and is still in production, also equipment from jawa -light and cool sidecar!
both sidecars I have seen connected with ls650p!
and my bike orkut.com/Main#AlbumZoom?uid=5129491369729967367&pid=1234381019862&aid=122563308
7$pid=1234381019862

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Stimpy - FSO Serious Thumper Offline SuzukisSavage Int'l Division Posts: 1203 Germany - formerly SD, SoCal Gender:	Re: Calling Phelonius Reply #2 - 10/15/09 at 13:22:25 COZY sidecars rule $2995 * ROCKET model: http://www.cyclesidecar.com/showroom/rocket.html * EURO model: http://www.cyclesidecar.com/showroom/euro.html * PHOTO gallery: http://www.cyclesidecar.com/photos/index.html * FAQ's here: http://www.cyclesidecar.com/buzz/faq.html#001
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BurnPgh Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1732	Re: Calling Phelonius Reply #3 - 10/15/09 at 14:23:36 yea...those cozy's look real nice. Anyone know what Phelonius has? Is it a velorex? Neither website seems to have weight info.
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BurnPgh Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1732	Re: Calling Phelonius Reply #4 - 10/16/09 at 23:24:06 Okay...been reading more at USCA. Not alot of savage hacks there but it seems some frame reinforcement may be needed. Please Phelonius, bestow unto me your wisdom.
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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28890 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Calling Phelonius Reply #5 - 10/17/09 at 00:18:12 If I remember correctly, only problem someone's had is with the swingarm. Developed a crack. And repaired it.
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BurnPgh

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Re: Calling Phelonius
Reply #6 - 10/17/09 at 01:15:17

Yes i remember that. I beleive that was Pehlonius. Glad you reminded me. Reading on USCA it seems someones had serious issues. "In late 2007 the front downtube completely broke above my front mount below the fuel tank. Upon inspection, I found the front down tube is very thin and ony lightly welded into the stamped parts connecting down tube, top frame tube and steering neck. " ...although rereading it seems he made hi sown hack as opposed to my buying one. Still...unsettling.

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Phelonius

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Re: Calling Phelonius
Reply #7 - 10/17/09 at 09:46:38

I am with the impression you only want to aquire a Url sidecar and not the whole rig.
I have one of these attatched to a DR650. It is a hoot! Because of the DR, it is off road capable. The rig on my S-40 ,
(AKA Webley Vickers )
is a bit lighter and so carries a 50 pound lead ballast weight.It is Velorex.
One f my friends here in town also has a Velorex on his Savage and is very favorably impressed.
Yes My swingarm cracked severely after about 10 or 11 thousand miles. I box gusseted the swingarm and have had no problems since. The whole process was posted on this site a bit less than 2 years ago.
I now have nearly 35 thousand miles on the rig.
I highly recommend box gusseting on any Savage carrying a hack.
I fabricated and welded into my frame, the sidecar lugs to fasten to.
My friend uses the clamp ons provided by Dauntless Motors
dauntlessmotors.com
I get 45 Miles per gallon and cruise at 55 to 60 MPH. Top speed is about 70 + with a stock engine. I recommend a 16 X 60 chain drive
and the installation of a Volkswagon steering damper. The rig rides OK without it but past expirence with sidecars, (since 1965) has shown me the safety factor of a steering damper. ( I have had friends go to the ICU in the hospital because of the lack of one at a critical moment.
The Ural is a big hack but the Savage shoul carry it.
If your passenger is a heavy person and will ride much of the time, get a bigger bike.
I go today to pickup a Honda 750 aero to carry a Ural.

Phelonius

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Phelonius

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Oldnewguy Senior Member Offline thumpin' along! Posts: 369 Upstate NY Gender:	Re: Calling Phelonius Reply #8 - 10/17/09 at 11:26:18 I have a Voyager kit on my Savage and am interested in the Volks steering damper. I guess all 3 wheel (4) have some front end shake when going over bumps?? What's the Volks damper?
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BurnPgh Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1732	Re: Calling Phelonius Reply #9 - 10/17/09 at 12:36:38 My original intention was to get the whole ural set up. But I'm going to go cozy or velorex with the savage pusher. Velorex i suppose since its apparently tried and true. More info please on the VW dampner.
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Phelonius

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Re: Calling Phelonius
Reply #10 - 10/18/09 at 10:10:12

The damper is for an old style beetle Volkswagon and is available from J.C. Whitney for about 30 dollars last time I bought one. You will need to fabricate or purchase a special clamp to fasten it to the front fork lower leg. That clamp should be fitted with a heim joint. The heim joint will have a 1/2 inch hole and will need a 1/2 to 10mm bronze bushing to fit the small end of the damper. The large end needs to be fitted with a type of universal joint that can allow both up and down swing and left, right motion.
The universal needs to be positioned so that at its' fullest left turn, the damper is extended to within 1/8th to 1/16th of an inch of maximum length. The clamp need to be positioned so that at the full right turn the damper is telescoped to within 1/8th to 1/16th of shortest length.
The toe in and lean out should be adjusted with the damper off the machine to attain the best stability, then the damper installed.
My damper has 35,000 miles on it and is showing no signs of failure yet.
Doctor Jim, a riding friend of mine in Seattle who used to frequent this site, had a Cozy on his savage. It is now in the possession of Max Morely of eastern Washington. I think Max still haunts this site occasionally but is having some serious health issues. If you want a Cozy, I advise you to contact one of them, or Jay at DauntlessMotors.com.

Properly set up, sidecar piloting is addictive. Improperly set up it varies from frustrating to lethal.

Phelonius

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Buckaroo

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Re: Calling Phelonius
Reply #11 - 10/22/09 at 16:43:48

My two cents. I've got a Savage with a Velorex 562 hack on the side. I went with a $500 subframe from Dauntless. It takes care of the thin downtube problem. I would not use a universal mounting kit on the 650. Tubing is not up to the lateral forces delivered by a sidecar.

The installation of the subframe was a piece of cake. My tires are the same as the Phelonius Flyer; Avon in front and Michelin 135x15 in the rear. With a fork brace, I don't need a steering dampener. I get a little wobble at 23 MPH but it is not there at any other speed.

The dauntless mounting kit puts the hack at a wider stance than the "PF" so I only use 25lbs in the bustle. If I am going on a longer trip at 60MPH+ I usually put another 25 lbs if I remember.

This is a great sidecar outfit! A Russian hack would be to heavy for the Savage 'Tug.' Cool

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1997 Honda Valkyrie with Motorvation Spyder sidecar
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