SuzukiSavage.com - Newbie Question

wayja

YaBB Newbies

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 5
Chico, CA
Gender: male

Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97?
03/02/08 at 06:48:31

Hello Forum,

I am a newbie here and a first time Savage owner. I picked up a high mileage Savage in great condition, but not running. I have not spent much time troubleshooting, but I tried to start it with starting fluid and it just backfires out the carb. Anyway, I was given a low mileage engine from a 1987. I know the 87 has a four speed box, but is there any problem with swapping the 97 engine for the 87? I do not have the 87 CDI box. I have read people trying to go the other way, and was wondering if I needed to change anything to make this work, ie; the CDI. I would appreciate anything anyone can share.

Thank you,

Wayja

Back to top

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28884
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97?
Reply #1 - 03/02/08 at 08:20:26

Two things come to mind and bear further investigation, one is that CDI box and the other is the regulator.

If I recall, the issue with the CDI box was timing, so you might have to get an 87 box to go with that engine.

Second, make sure the wiring matches up on the regulator (color, number of wires) I think someone has said that it was different at one time or another. But If you got matching wires to hook up, you should be ok.

BTW: this is all guess work and recolection as I don't have your problem.

And where are you? "The world wonders".

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

wayja

YaBB Newbies

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 5
Chico, CA
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97?
Reply #2 - 03/02/08 at 08:40:14

Thanks for the reply verslagen1. I was looking for the easy way out thinking that an engine swap would be simpler (and cheaper) than pulling the existing engine apart. With the weather in Chico, CA (like how I slipped that in answering your location question?) starting to improve, I was thinking more about riding than wrenching. The previous owner told me the engine was making alot of noise and he kept riding it not being mechanically inclined, until it wouldn't start anymore. It has roughly 14K on the clock, so I am thinking at minimum timing chain/adjuster. I guess my first step is going to be to drain the oil and see what comes out. It might be easier to fix the problem than to swap all the '97 parts to the '87 for CDI and regulator support?

Thanks again for the help,

Wayja

Back to top

IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Reply #3 - 03/02/08 at 13:08:53 Great! Check the cam chain and the valves, same as the other thread here. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1204463053/5#5
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

T Mack 1 - FSO Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline sold 2001 LS650 for a 1986 XLH1100 Posts: 2919 Emmaus,Pa Gender:	Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Reply #4 - 03/02/08 at 14:40:14 Has anyone tried to swap the right side engine cover.??? In other words, take the 97 cover and put it on the 87......
Back to top	Engineers design things, Technicians make them work. --- 30% of being mechanical is confidence/30% is knowing to go slow when needed/30% is looking repeatedly at what you have/10% is dumb luck IP Logged

Rockin_John

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Posts: 1562
+36° 10' , -95° 48'
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97?
Reply #5 - 03/02/08 at 18:55:28

Immediately several reasons to discourage swapping in an old model engine into a late model bike come to mind: The early model had a known fatal failure mode in the starting system that has eaten many a crankcase and/or starting gear parts... IMO the 5-speed is much preferable. And as you already know the electrical systems aren't compatible. And last but not least: You will devalue the bike by having mis-matched parts.

IMO, you'd be much better off in the long run to fix the bike's original engine (if possible) and maybe recoup some cost by selling the other engine to someone who needs it to fix up an older model.

Probably not what you want to hear if you are looking for a short cut to a running bike; but the short way isn't always the best way, and in fact trying to take a short cut can often lead to a lot more work than just "biting the bullet" and doing what needs to be done.

Back to top

IP Logged

Rockin_John

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Posts: 1562
+36° 10' , -95° 48'
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97?
Reply #6 - 03/02/08 at 20:07:28

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 03/02/08 at 14:40:14:

Has anyone tried to swap the right side engine cover.???

In other words, take the 97 cover and put it on the 87......

The right side crankcase/clutch cover? According to the fiche on Ron Ayer's they are the same part number for an 87 or a 97 or for that matter an 07, so... But your point eludes me???

Back to top

IP Logged

T Mack 1 - FSO

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

sold 2001 LS650 for
a 1986 XLH1100

Posts: 2919
Emmaus,Pa
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97?
Reply #7 - 03/03/08 at 05:54:04

Rockin_John wrote on 03/02/08 at 20:07:28:

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 03/02/08 at 14:40:14:

Has anyone tried to swap the right side engine cover.???

In other words, take the 97 cover and put it on the 87......

The right side crankcase/clutch cover? According to the fiche on Ron Ayer's they are the same part number for an 87 or a 97 or for that matter an 07, so... But your point eludes me???

OOP's..... left side. .... That's the tatoo I'm getting, an L on left palm, and an R on the right..... Wink

The idea is putting the '97 stator in the '87. Also, I'm about 75% sure the little starter gear (the one that has the slip plates for over torquer releif) in the 97 can be swapped into the 87. Not 100% sure but from the pictures I've seem and having had my '01 apart, I would think it would....

Back to top

Engineers design things, Technicians make them work.
---
30% of being mechanical is confidence/30% is knowing to go slow when needed/30% is looking repeatedly at what you have/10% is dumb luck Wink

IP Logged

wayja YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 5 Chico, CA Gender:	Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Reply #8 - 03/03/08 at 06:09:03 After looking at my options, and Rockin_John's spot on opinion, it makes more sense in the long run to fix the original engine. Thanks for helping a Savage newbie. Rock on, Wayja
Back to top	IP Logged

vroom1776

Serious Thumper

Offline

Posts: 2110

Gender: male

Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97?
Reply #9 - 03/03/08 at 06:27:14

uh, any regulator will work. The old ones had 6 wires, but on the new ones, one of the wires is shorted internally. You can just leave the spot in the wiring harness unfilled for that 6th wire.

also, I think the ~~starter relay~~ decompression controller may be a little different. That whole circuit was wired differently for the early models.

Back to top

« Last Edit: 03/03/08 at 12:23:44 by vroom1776 »

IP Logged

Kropatchek Serious Thumper Offline Why more than 1 cylinder? Posts: 1457 Alphen a/d Rijn Netherlands Gender:	Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Reply #10 - 03/03/08 at 06:50:12 Your only worry is the CDI. I.a.w. the rotor should match the CDI. Replace the CDI or replace the rotor, that's all.
Back to top	Never ask your bike to scream before her throat is warm. '93 Sav in '96 ( yellow) looks IP Logged

sunny Senior Member 2004 No Login Offline rock this town Posts: 293 d/fw texas Gender:	Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Reply #11 - 03/03/08 at 07:10:10 i swapped out a 97 engine for an 87 engine i got off ebay. it ran. the reason i'm switching back after fixing the 97 engine is the 87 had unseen internal issues and ended up stuck in second gear. i hate ebay. but yeah, the 87 ran with all the 97 electrical parts attached.
Back to top	flatblack rat - 97 sun_rat IP Logged

wayja

YaBB Newbies

Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 5
Chico, CA
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97?
Reply #12 - 03/11/08 at 10:46:14

Well, my worst fear has been confirmed. The cam chain tensioner has come apart. Fortunately, the spring is still in tact and didn't fall in the crankcase. The other problem, I didn't expect, was there was very little oil in it, and it was thick and black! I am going to dissect the oil filter and see what is lurking. I won the bike for $25.00 on Ebay, so I shouldn't be too surprised. Now, did the valves hit the piston? The previous owner said he took it to a mechanic and he couldn't find the problem. He said it made a noise and then quite running. How much cranking was done with no oil? At least I have the '87 engine to draw parts from. The saga continues.....

Wayja

Back to top

IP Logged

T Mack 1 - FSO

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

sold 2001 LS650 for
a 1986 XLH1100

Posts: 2919
Emmaus,Pa
Gender: male

Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97?
Reply #13 - 03/12/08 at 19:37:06

Black oil..... yuk ...... Tongue

These bikes are a bit old school and don't take abusing oil to
well. The piston can get too hot and grow which will cause it to
starting catching on the cylinder wall and croak......

Since you sound like you will have the head off, do a very close
inspection of the cylinder wall.....

Sorry if the picture is a bit scary, but I want you to
understand that it's better to inspect everything you can and
not do a rush job to just get it running again.

Back to top

Engineers design things, Technicians make them work.
---
30% of being mechanical is confidence/30% is knowing to go slow when needed/30% is looking repeatedly at what you have/10% is dumb luck Wink

IP Logged

Reelthing Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Fish or ride that is the question Posts: 5397 Houston,Tx Gender:	Re: Newbie Question - 87 Engine in a 97? Reply #14 - 03/12/08 at 20:03:15 oh a shinny new piston is a thing of beauty!
Back to top	IP Logged