SuzukiSavage.com - Do we need a better cam chain?

Savage_Greg

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Don't go around your
ass to reach your
elbow...

Posts: 7844
SW Washington State
Gender: male

Re: Do we need a better cam chain?
Reply #105 - 08/16/07 at 07:29:38

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

Just rebuild a 2001 and it only had 10mm bolts ... but..... It should be noted that at 10.4K miles the chain measured 127.25 mm (pulling a little to take up any slack). I saw a post saying 127mmm was "new". Also, the guides had very little signs of wear.

Sounds strange for an engine that the piston died.

That chain has a long way to go. It is sort of difficult to get an accurate measure on the chain since it needs to be stretched straight and any contact with calipers makes it move around on the bench. Sure would be nice to have a height gage.

Anyway, you measured 127.25 and I read ~127.35 on the new one. Either way we're splitting a millimeter.

Essentially, the chain will be bad when it has stretched a length about equal to one rivet diameter. We ain't even close to that

Back to top

IP Logged

Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: Do we need a better cam chain? Reply #106 - 08/16/07 at 07:32:16 verslagen1 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08: me thinks you need a new calculator 5" x 25.4mm/in = 127.0mm (new chain) 5.07 x 25.4 = 128.78 (dead chain) To be honest...I didn't calculate. That number comes straight out of the SSM. Now, I'm running back out to the garage to check the book.
Back to top	IP Logged

Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: Do we need a better cam chain? Reply #107 - 08/16/07 at 07:38:18 Okay. So which number is correct? Is it 128.9 mm or 5.07"? Think that you could contact your engineer buddies at Suzuki My calculator says...128.9 / 25.4 = 5.07480314 inches and........................5.07 / .03937 = 128.77257556 mm Must be a translation thing
Back to top	IP Logged

Savage_Greg

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Don't go around your
ass to reach your
elbow...

Posts: 7844
SW Washington State
Gender: male

Re: Do we need a better cam chain?
Reply #108 - 08/16/07 at 07:57:12

verslagen1 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

me thinks you need a new calculator

5" x 25.4mm/in = 127.0mm (new chain)

5.07 x 25.4 = 128.78 (dead chain)

Oh yeah...where did you get the 5.000" measure for a new chain? I got 4.990" but I admit it was hard to be measure on my bench.

Either way, I still have 3 good chains Tongue

Back to top

IP Logged

LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10661 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Do we need a better cam chain? Reply #109 - 08/16/07 at 08:35:28 My chain has about 9k+ miles and measures 127.6mm, with no evidence of any damage on the gears.
Back to top	IP Logged

T Mack 1 - FSO

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

sold 2001 LS650 for
a 1986 XLH1100

Posts: 2919
Emmaus,Pa
Gender: male

Re: Do we need a better cam chain?
Reply #110 - 08/16/07 at 08:47:19

wow, we're talking .001" range here.....that could be the difference of the swash of one rivet (pin?) compared to another.....you might have to take several measurements at different spots and avg them.

Also, I no longer work where I can borrow a caliper for "Gov't" jobs, so my 127.25mm was using a expensive steel rule and magnifing glass. I will note that one of my former jobs was taking measurements on analog gauges for a military contractor, and I was certified by the military, what I saw/read was "acturate" within "Mil-Spec" tolerance (very tight tolerances). But, down that small is hard to read.......could have been 127.3 or 127.2 but I sure it wasn't 127.5.....

Back to top

Engineers design things, Technicians make them work.
---
30% of being mechanical is confidence/30% is knowing to go slow when needed/30% is looking repeatedly at what you have/10% is dumb luck Wink

IP Logged

Savage_Greg

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Don't go around your
ass to reach your
elbow...

Posts: 7844
SW Washington State
Gender: male

Re: Do we need a better cam chain?
Reply #111 - 08/16/07 at 09:03:44

Okay, okay...I went back and used bungee cords to stretch the chains tight and measure them again.

1st - Verslagen is right. I used a maginifier and made a closer check on the new chain. It definitely looks to be to 5.000" and 127.0 mm.

2nd - I measured mine too, and it is even better than I thought at 5.015" or 127.4 mm. Hardly any reason to replace it.

So, I redid my photo above to reflect these corrections. Click the link for a closer look in my Photobucket if you want.

As for the calculations? Is it 128.9 mm and 5.075" or is it 128.78 mm and 5.070"?

The difference is .12 mm or .005". Who actually cares???

Back to top

IP Logged

Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: Do we need a better cam chain? Reply #112 - 08/16/07 at 09:07:16 LANCER wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08: My chain has about 9k+ miles and measures 127.6mm, with no evidence of any damage on the gears. That brings up a whole nuther topic. Mine has higher miles and measures less. Any thoughts?
Back to top	IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Do we need a better cam chain? Reply #113 - 08/16/07 at 09:11:05 since 127mm works out to be 5" exactly and from oldfellers work says that it's a .25" pitch chain. 20 x .25 = 5" I think that confirms that a new chain measures 5" And I believe I measured mine.
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

Savage_Greg

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Don't go around your
ass to reach your
elbow...

Posts: 7844
SW Washington State
Gender: male

Re: Do we need a better cam chain?
Reply #114 - 08/16/07 at 09:13:12

verslagen1 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

since 127mm works out to be 5" exactly and from oldfellers work says that it's a .25" pitch chain.

20 x .25 = 5"

I think that confirms that a new chain measures 5"

And I believe I measured mine.

Just like an engineer. You get the numbers from the technicians and claim them for yourself.

Did you read above?

Back to top

IP Logged

verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28884 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Do we need a better cam chain? Reply #115 - 08/16/07 at 09:18:35 Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08: As for the calculations? Is it 128.9 mm and 5.075" or is it 128.78 mm and 5.070"? The difference is .12 mm or .005". Who actually cares??? 128.9mm = 5.074803" It is acceptable to round off 5.074803 to 5.07 Us nit picking engineers care.
Back to top	Versey's Place Tech Section Index IP Logged

T Mack 1 - FSO

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

sold 2001 LS650 for
a 1986 XLH1100

Posts: 2919
Emmaus,Pa
Gender: male

Re: Do we need a better cam chain?
Reply #116 - 08/16/07 at 09:19:13

Quote:

That brings up a whole nuther topic. Mine has higher miles and measures less.

Any thoughts?

Maybe your engine had an easier life, less shifting, more consistant running, less abuse.

When I picked up my bike (dead piston) the PO sounded like he did freeway driving to & from work. Had very little signs of wear (chain or guides), but that could be the highway driving.....less on & off the throttle.

Back to top

Engineers design things, Technicians make them work.
---
30% of being mechanical is confidence/30% is knowing to go slow when needed/30% is looking repeatedly at what you have/10% is dumb luck Wink

IP Logged

verslagen1

YaBB Moderator
ModSquad

Offline

Where there's a
will, I want to be
in it.

Posts: 28884
L.A. California
Gender: male

Re: Do we need a better cam chain?
Reply #117 - 08/16/07 at 09:24:54

Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

Just like an engineer. You get the numbers from the technicians and claim them for yourself.

Did you read above?

Well if you want to get really picky... dig thru all the posts and you might find that someone concluded that 127mm = equals a new chain before oldfeller. I only sighted the most current reference as empirical proof of theoretical fact. Tongue

Back to top

Versey's Place
Tech Section Index

IP Logged

Savage_Greg

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Don't go around your
ass to reach your
elbow...

Posts: 7844
SW Washington State
Gender: male

Re: Do we need a better cam chain?
Reply #118 - 08/16/07 at 09:25:09

verslagen1 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

128.9mm = 5.074803"

It is acceptable to round off 5.074803 to 5.07

Us nit picking engineers care.

5.0748 to 5.075

If you care then round up to 3 decimal places like nit pickin' machinists do. They don't read in 10ths of an inch.

Oh, I forget, engineers only carry those cute little scales in their pocket protectors Tongue

.

Back to top

IP Logged

Savage_Greg

Serious Thumper
Alliance Member

Offline

Don't go around your
ass to reach your
elbow...

Posts: 7844
SW Washington State
Gender: male

Re: Do we need a better cam chain?
Reply #119 - 08/16/07 at 09:28:25

T Mack 1 - FSO wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:08:

Maybe your engine had an easier life, less shifting, more consistant running, less abuse.

When I picked up my bike (dead piston) the PO sounded like he did freeway driving to & from work. Had very little signs of wear (chain or guides), but that could be the highway driving.....less on & off the throttle.

Well, I was responding to Lancer...the difference also includes a different cam shaft...

hmmm...

Back to top

IP Logged