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Extending the life of the camchain (Read 768 times)
justin_o_guy
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #15 - 01/18/07 at 15:29:41
 
Except for the plunger retainer mod on the tensioner is that the same tensioner I have?
Now the need for the inner plate is obvious. It is the mount for the outter plate. The pivot for the swinging plate with the tensioner has no bolt hole without the inner plate providing it.  If the tensioner is the same as what is in my engine, I think I can build this little doohickey in the garage. I can promise, it won't be near that pretty.

Kropatchek, your posts I always read. Thanks Man..
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #16 - 01/18/07 at 18:09:45
 
Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
He's asking 149 Euros for the kit

So, just about $200.  That could be worthwhile in the long run if it only needs to be adjusted every 10k-15k miles.  Of course, you still have to measure the chain and be concerned about how a stretched chain wears more on the sprockets, etc.
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Kropatchek
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #17 - 01/19/07 at 02:00:57
 
justin_o_guy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
Except for the plunger retainer mod on the tensioner is that the same tensioner I have?
Now the need for the inner plate is obvious. It is the mount for the outter plate. The pivot for the swinging plate with the tensioner has no bolt hole without the inner plate providing it.  If the tensioner is the same as what is in my engine, I think I can build this little doohickey in the garage. I can promise, it won't be near that pretty.

Kropatchek, your posts I always read. Thanks Man..


The tensioner is the one installed by Suzuki. The reason for the stop is to prevent a breakdown of the tensioner with the consequences of a heavily damaged engine.
When the tensioner reaches the end of it's travel and stops its movement the chain will make ratteling noises. Then its time to open-up the casing and return the tensioner to its starting position. The change in valve timing as marked before in a post is, acc. Norbert not noticed in a decrease of performance
Check the German forum for pictures of the tensioner modifications if you're curious.

www.ls-650.de
Then "motor" and read/look at the pictures, of the 2 posts "Kettenspanner"

Hope this helps clarify, at least that's what I understand

Greetz

Kropatchek Grin
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Kropatchek
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #18 - 01/19/07 at 02:24:04
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
So, just about $200.  That could be worthwhile in the long run if it only needs to be adjusted every 10k-15k miles.  Of course, you still have to measure the chain and be concerned about how a stretched chain wears more on the sprockets, etc.


The "rejection" lenght of the chain doesnot seem the reason for replacement. IOW when the tensioner is out 18 mm, the chain lenght is still shorter than 128.9 over 21 pins, the advice/experience is to replace the chain and the rear guide. This will bring the tensioner extension back to approx 11 mm. When the tensioner piston is out for more than 18mm it will elongate the bore and the tensioner has to be replace also.
Thats what I read on the German forum.
Make sence?

Greetz
Kropatchek Grin
Kropatchek


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Savage_Rob
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #19 - 01/19/07 at 05:22:52
 
Does Norbert sell these on a particular site or is it simply via direct contact or what?
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #20 - 01/19/07 at 06:51:39
 
Kropatchek wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
The "rejection" lenght of the chain doesnot seem the reason for replacement. IOW when the tensioner is out 18 mm, the chain lenght is still shorter than 128.9 over 21 pins, the advice/experience is to replace the chain and the rear guide. This will bring the tensioner extension back to approx 11 mm. When the tensioner piston is out for more than 18mm it will elongate the bore and the tensioner has to be replace also.


Sounds like it would be possible to gain most of the benefit just by modifying the tensioner so that the extension piston can't move out far enough to elongate the hole. You wouldn't be able to get longer useful life from the chain because you would still have to replace the chain when the rattling started but at least the tensioner wouldn't self-destruct as it seems to do now.

Ken
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Savage_Rob
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #21 - 01/19/07 at 07:05:16
 
KenGLong wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
Sounds like it would be possible to gain most of the benefit just by modifying the tensioner so that the extension piston can't move out far enough to elongate the hole. You wouldn't be able to get longer useful life from the chain because you would still have to replace the chain when the rattling started but at least the tensioner wouldn't self-destruct as it seems to do now.


I'm not sure about that because the functional length of the tensioner piston will be reduced by not allowing it to progress as far.   Then resetting it and moving the bracket on which the tensioner resides allows it to continue.  Two cycles of this should approach the useful life of the chain while avoiding catastrophic collapse.  At least that's the way I understand it at this point.
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Kropatchek
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #22 - 01/19/07 at 08:28:08
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
Does Norbert sell these on a particular site or is it simply via direct contact or what?


You can contact him and see if he'willing to sell overseas. Problem will be the payment( he has no PayPal) and his limited understanding of English.
Suggest you write in English and put the Babelfish translation underneath.
his e-mail
norbert@blue-thumper.de

Hope he doesn't mind.

Greetz
Kropatchek Grin


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KenGLong
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #23 - 01/19/07 at 08:42:04
 
Savage_Rob wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:01:
I'm not sure about that because the functional length of the tensioner piston will be reduced by not allowing it to progress as far.


True. Extending the usable life of the cam chain is the second part of the equation which won't happen if the only mod is to limit the tensioner piston travel. Still, half an improvement is better than no improvement!

Ken
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #24 - 01/20/07 at 19:29:37
 
why couldn't a inspection port be added in a spot to view the current status of the freaking tensioner?
With or without the tensioner mod!  You could uncork that little baby anytime and see with no doubt when the coming out party was due.
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #25 - 01/20/07 at 22:04:33
 
Dandy idea. For a D.I.Y. project, anyone have an idea how to put a window in that thing? Take the case off & put a hole in it in the appropriate place & have someone weld a fitting to screw a plug into?
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #26 - 01/20/07 at 22:09:38
 
it was a nice wish...can't be done.  oil filter's right there.
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #27 - 01/20/07 at 22:48:28
 
Okay, howzabout this then, say we stick a contact on the tensioner plunger that grounds a wire to an idiot light when the plunger comes out as far as is safe? Runing  wires in to there be possible?
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blue-thumper
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #28 - 01/21/07 at 07:10:23
 
ich spreche leider kein englisch aber vieleicht kann das ja einer übersetzen.

probleme mit längeren steuerketten gibt es keine, hier ein beispiel von zwei ketten.

die eine ist neu und die andere hat 65 000 km gelaufen, der längenunterschied ist so gering das dieser auf die steuerzeiten kaum einfluss ausübt.



außerdem sind die steuerzeiten der savage so zahm berechnet das die geringe längung der kette nicht bemerkbar ist.

ich selbst fahre momentan eine steuerkette mit 58 000 km ohne probleme.

ich habe alles lange genug getestet und erst dann mit dem verkauf der neuen kettenspanner begonnen.
gruß norbert (blue thumper mit 135 000 km) Grin
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Re: Extending the life of the camchain
Reply #29 - 01/21/07 at 07:26:23
 
What about better oil and more frequent oil changes ?
This will save the clutch problems, the camshaft wear problems , and the cam chain wear problems. And one more thing- the crank case vent- Do not let it stay just open to the athmosphere- always make sure it is connected to the air box. If You have some kind of pod filter You've created Yourself a problem, but not a biggie- just fo to AutoZone and get a crank case vent filter and install it on the vent hose.
 Doing some mods to the tensioner is a step above the normal common sense maintenance. I've looked into it and the only mod. that everybody can easy do is the suggested in the infamous artice. Most of the bikes on the market can be converted to a mechanical tensioner, but with the Savage, every time You want to adjust the cam chain You will have to pull the right side engine cover- way too much work and mess.
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