SuzukiSavage.com - I am curious.

Brewbrother

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I am curious.
05/14/06 at 18:15:17

We all own a simple machine. It was a priority reason for my purchase. I enjoy simplicity. My main purpose with mods is to increase engine life. The lean backfiring condition is a death trap for the savage. I have done a bit of research and have not found an anwser to the following question. If I add a sportster muffler, do the spacer mod and add a K&N air filter, why should I rejet if I don't go more than 2 turns on the air mix screw?? I have no intrest in top end speed I really have no intrest in midrange performance. My commute is a 14 mile round trip. I occasionally go for a pleasure ride, but its a rarity(considering the cagers menatilty towards bikers). Can anyone shed some light on this question?? Wink

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Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
No spacer,60 pilot jet, 155 main jet, plug door, sportster muffler, k&n drop in, iridium plug, brake pedal mod,de-badged, Dunlops, bullet turn signals.

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necropsy Full Member 2005 No Login Offline Suzuki '05 S40 Posts: 173 Barrie, Ontario, Canada Gender:	Re: I am curious. Reply #1 - 05/14/06 at 18:39:58 The air/fuel idle mixture screw is just that, Idle speed. By installing the K&N air filter and sporty muffler, you are increasing the air flow through the engine but aren't adressing the gas flow, thereby worsening an already lean condition in the engine. The end result being more harmful to your engine than just leaving it alone.
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LANCER

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Re: I am curious.
Reply #2 - 05/14/06 at 18:40:35

If your pilot jet adjusting screw is less than 2 turns out and your engine likes it there, then there is no need to change. The spacer mod has altered the midrange slightly and if it runs good then you may not need any other changes. Check your plug, and if it is the proper color then you are good to go.
Remember, every machine is different.

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Brewbrother

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Re: I am curious.
Reply #3 - 05/14/06 at 18:53:59

LANCER wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:

If your pilot jet adjusting screw is less than 2 turns out and your engine likes it there, then there is no need to change. The spacer mod has altered the midrange slightly and if it runs good then you may not need any other changes. Check your plug, and if it is the proper color then you are good to go.
Remember, every machine is different.

I appericiate your integrity. I was thinking the same thing but never saw it covered. I am planning on doing what I described but with a single #4 washer as the spacer mod. If that fails then in my opinion the carb should be replaced. I guess you know what that means. Grin

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Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
No spacer,60 pilot jet, 155 main jet, plug door, sportster muffler, k&n drop in, iridium plug, brake pedal mod,de-badged, Dunlops, bullet turn signals.

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911radioman Ex Member	Re: I am curious. Reply #4 - 05/14/06 at 19:32:04 I've seen a few posts here referring to 2/3 spacer as opposed to 1/2 spacer when modifying. This may sound dumb, but are they referring to removing 2/3 of the spacer, or leaving 2/3 of the spacer? Right now I'm running 1/2 of the spacer on mine.
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Brewbrother

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Re: I am curious.
Reply #5 - 05/14/06 at 19:51:36

911radioman wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:

I've seen a few posts here referring to 2/3 spacer as opposed to 1/2 spacer when modifying. This may sound dumb, but are they referring to removing 2/3 of the spacer, or leaving 2/3 of the spacer? Right now I'm running 1/2 of the spacer on mine.

I guess thats the point. IMHO most of the mods are aimed at a specific power levels. My thinking is the jets and needle are effected by the exhaust and intake mods. If your more than2 turns out on the air fuelmixture screw then your rejet willbe dictated by your riding style. If it runs well for you riding purposes then the jet size becomes a moot point.

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Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
No spacer,60 pilot jet, 155 main jet, plug door, sportster muffler, k&n drop in, iridium plug, brake pedal mod,de-badged, Dunlops, bullet turn signals.

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Dynobob

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Re: I am curious.
Reply #6 - 05/14/06 at 21:51:42

When you add an aftermarket muffler you lean out the jetting across the board. The stock jetting is already too lean. You need to richen all the circuits of the carb.

Pilot jet and slow mixture screw - 0 -> 1/8 throttle
Needle and white spacer - 1/8 -> 3/4 throttle
Main jet - 3/4 -> full throttle

The main jet does affect the other circuits to some extent.

The slow mixture screw and the pilot jet affect the same circuit - 0 -> 1/8 throttle. You only need to increase the size of the pilot jet if you have to turn out the slow mixture screw too far (3 or 4 turns) to get a good idle.

911radioman - I'm pretty sure they are talking about a spacer 2/3s the thickness of stock. IE- remove 1/3. My bike does great with 1/2 spacer but it is plenty rich. With a stock Sportster muffler, 2/3s spacer would probably work pretty well.

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azjay

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Re: I am curious.
Reply #7 - 05/15/06 at 07:43:27

i left the spacer (2 washers) at 2/3 origional thickness, removed 1/3, because i went to a 155 main jet, as opposed to a 152.5 which works well for some. i figured with such a large main jet, i didn't need much less needle for mid range. after some run time and rethinking, mid range is cruising speed, i may go to half spacer to see if i can eliminate more backfiring, (after i check for exhaust leaks) and fatten up the cruising mixture. as a reminder, i live in yuma,az. and it is summer here already, 100*+ for the next 100+ days, we prefer to run our air cooled motors a little bit fat, to help cooling. (we also have several air cooled vws).

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dyna muff,1/2 spacer,152.5,55,drilled air box,idle mix,spark plug door,harley bars & seat,spitfire windshield,turn signal,dunlops,man.pethingy,ISO pegs,engine cage,hiway pegs,support 81

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iarecanadian

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Re: I am curious.
Reply #8 - 05/15/06 at 15:28:13

What is a #4 washer? Do I just walk into any hardware store and ask for it by name? Is it a carb part or something more general?

Brewbrother wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:

I appericiate your integrity. I was thinking the same thing but never saw it covered. I am planning on doing what I described but with a single #4 washer as the spacer mod. If that fails then in my opinion the carb should be replaced. I guess you know what that means. Grin

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911radioman

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Re: I am curious.
Reply #9 - 05/15/06 at 15:33:28

iarecanadian wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:

What is a #4 washer? Do I just walk into any hardware store and ask for it by name? Is it a carb part or something more general?

Yep. Ask for it by that name. It isn't a special washer, it is just a washer. That said, it isn't a perfect fit. You'll have to grind it down somewhat to fit or else it will jam in the slide.

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Brewbrother Serious Thumper Offline Just lending a helping hand. Posts: 953 Gender:	Re: I am curious. Reply #10 - 05/15/06 at 16:43:01 iarecanadian wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05: What is a #4 washer? Do I just walk into any hardware store and ask for it by name? Is it a carb part or something more general? They are about 4 cents(US) each at the local hardware store. Buy a chain saw file to clean them up.
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Brewbrother

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Re: I am curious.
Reply #11 - 05/15/06 at 16:57:51

necropsy wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:05:

The air/fuel idle mixture screw is just that, Idle speed.
By installing the K&N air filter and sporty muffler, you are increasing the air flow through the engine but aren't adressing the gas flow, thereby worsening an already lean condition in the engine. The end result being more harmful to your engine than just leaving it alone.

My limited understanding indicates that the spacer mod increases the amount of fuel in the carb circuit. I think the deciding factor is how many turns out you have to use for the air/fuel mixture. factoring in where it was preset at the factory. the origional post concerning this spacer mod was to open the carb remove the spacer and toss it in the trash can. Then adjust the air/fuel mixture. IMHO, whether you rejet or not depends on two main factors. The air fuel preset from the factory and where you are looking for your response point in the throttle. My main reason for the mod is engine life. I mainly ride in city traffic and could care less about performance. I have explored what the bike can do stock. I occasionally make a long ride, but almost always its a 14 mile round trip.

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Opportunities multiply as they are seized.
No spacer,60 pilot jet, 155 main jet, plug door, sportster muffler, k&n drop in, iridium plug, brake pedal mod,de-badged, Dunlops, bullet turn signals.

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iarecanadian Ex Member	Re: I am curious. Reply #12 - 05/15/06 at 18:31:37 K, a #4 washer that needs to be filed down with a chainsaw file. This is getting murkier instead of clearer. What does the rest of the world call a #4 washer?
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911radioman

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Re: I am curious.
Reply #13 - 05/15/06 at 18:45:53

How is it getting murkier? Go to your local hardware store and ask them for a #4 washer. When you get home with it, file the thing down so it is the diameter of your white spacer. A #4 washer is too large in diameter to fit down the slide. It will bind itself and your carb will not function properly.

OR, buy yourself another white spacer and file it down to the thickness you desire. OR, since you will be removing the white spacer anyhow, take it out of the carb and take it to your local hardware store and tell them you want a washer the diameter of that white spacer.

Don't really know how else to explain it, other than here in the states it is a #4 washer. I have no clue what Canada calls them.

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Dynobob

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Re: I am curious.
Reply #14 - 05/15/06 at 19:14:02

With a Sportster muffler and a K&N go with a 152.5 main jet, 1/2 or 2/3s thickness white spacer, and adjust your slow mixture screw to the best/highest idle. Turn up your idle speed a bit and enjoy long engine life and performance. They kinda go together. Your bike will start easier, warm up faster, stay cooler, and run smoother.

If you don't want to enjoy your newfound performance...don't twist the throttle Grin

If you trash the white spacer you will be too rich in the midrange. That was learned several years ago. That's why we file/sand our spacers down to 1/2.

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