SuzukiSavage.com - An interesting post for tweakers

Honda_fan Junior Member 2004 No Login Offline Go Ride! Posts: 70 Antioch, IL Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #15 - 09/13/04 at 12:09:57 klx650sm2002 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09: Anyone who has used a TIG will know about the importance of pointy electrodes. Clive W Well not totally pointy, but I know what you mean. We get best life with a small flat on the tip.
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Honda_fan

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #16 - 09/13/04 at 12:12:52

Jon wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09:

> Will it really show me something?

Get a can of Sea Foam at a NAPA auto parts store and you will see.

Jon,

Do you know what the main ingredient is in Seafoam? I have never heard of this myself. MMM is mainly ATF fluid and you can get the same results using the cheapest ATF you can find. I was wondering if Seafoam is also mostly ATF or is there some other ingredient.

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klx650sm2002 Serious Thumper Offline The more I learn the less I know. Posts: 2041 Cumbria,England Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #17 - 09/13/04 at 12:13:49 Like the flat tip on the centre electrode. Clive W
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Jon

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #18 - 09/13/04 at 12:53:37

Honda_fan wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09:

Do you know what the main ingredient is in Seafoam?

Sea Foam is pale oil and naphtha. Pale oil is apparently a spin-off from the gasoline distillation process. It's a lube and also very good at dissolving petroleum sludge. Sea Foam added to the crankcase will unstick gummy, glued rings. I've used it a lot on restoration projects to bring back compression.

I'm not sure exactly how SF in the gas gives the bike more punch. Naphtha may have a lower flash point than gasoline so it effectively increases the combustion energy?

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za16866 Ex Member	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #19 - 09/13/04 at 13:14:26 87 or 89 octane... hummmmmm... i run 94 all the time? am i foolish?
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Savage_Greg Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Don't go around your ass to reach your elbow... Posts: 7844 SW Washington State Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #20 - 09/14/04 at 03:02:39 Probably just a waste of money with the low compression engine. Only useful if you experience and knock or preignition and ride in a hot area. The book recommends regular.
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Susan Serious Thumper 2004 No Login Offline Been AWOL but I'm back... Posts: 682 Eastern PA Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #21 - 09/14/04 at 06:05:39 Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09: Probably just a waste of money with the low compression engine. Only useful if you experience and knock or preignition and ride in a hot area. The book recommends regular. Knocking I understand. What is preignition?
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Paladin.

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #22 - 09/14/04 at 06:39:39

dictionary.com:

preignition
n.
The ignition of fuel in an internal-combustion engine before the spark passes through the fuel, resulting from a hot spot in the cylinder or from too great a compression ratio for the fuel.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language

The Otto Cycle:

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/thermo/otto.html#c2

When preignition occurs the firing of the fuel and the explosive expansion of gas pushing the pistion down starts while the crankshaft is pushing the pistion up. Until the pistion hits top dead center and starts down the expanding gases are trying to stop the rotation of the engine. After the piston passes TDC the expanding gases push to speed up engine rotation.

(On a low speed turn you can feel each power stroke give the bike a goose.)

When you are crusing at part throttle you are restricting the amount of air/fuel into the engine. When you open the throttle you increase the amount of air/fuel entering the cylinder and the compression of this greater amount of air/fuel results in higher pressures triggering the preignition.

Use of a higher octane rating will reduce preignition.

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Paladin. Serious Thumper Offline Hamster Posts: 4929 Sunny Southern California Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #23 - 09/14/04 at 06:42:19 za16866 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09: 87 or 89 octane... hummmmmm... i run 94 all the time? am i foolish? 94? Swine! The highest I can get from a commercial pump is 91. The Birthplace of Hot-Rodding is denied decent gasoline.
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za16866

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #24 - 09/14/04 at 07:53:33

i get it from sunoco... but just for the fun of it ... last fall i got a couple gallons of vp racing fuel 115 octane from my buddy( he races late models) filled her up with that... ran like a raped ape.... but nobody could follow me down the road... the exhaust was so strong that the 2 guy's behind me made me stop so they could wipe the tears from their eyes.... they likened it to cutting onions... i thought it was pretty funny... but they led the pack the rest of the day..... Shocked

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Mr 650

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #25 - 09/14/04 at 08:27:59

Seems like I recently read that the EPA requires oxygenated gas during summer, like May to October, in high smog areas. (Kalifornia all the time now?) This seems to correspond w/ an increase in backfires about May, until good ol' summer heat richens the mixture.
March and April in w/ temps in the 60's bike runs fine on regular 87 octane. As the air warms up, I get some detonation if I lug it around, so I switched to premium 91-93 octane to help w/ that, but it seems like local Shell backfired more after sundown, until July & Aug.
Now I run one 'click' higher midgrade or premium only to defend against dreaded pinging depending on temperature and load. I was away from July to last Dec. and missed out on the dreaded hi-temp ping last year.
The ol 650 will pull even if you are 2 gears too high and I love the sound, but it will ping if you lug it down too hard and whack it open. This is more common if the temp is like in the 90's, so I try to baby it more in bad heat. When 90+, I prefer the GMC on "Max Air" anyway.

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wrench

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #26 - 09/14/04 at 09:54:54

> Seems like I recently read that the EPA requires
> oxygenated gas during summer,

It is used in the cold months to compensate for longer run time with the choke on. California may have their own requirements, though.

> This seems to correspond w/ an increase in backfires
> about May, until good ol' summer heat richens the
> mixture.

Heat leans the mixture. Warmer temps combined with a reduced amount of MTBE in the gas would cause the backfiring.

> As the air warms up, I get some detonation if I lug it
> around... the ol 650 will pull even if you are 2 gears
> too high and I love the sound, but it will ping if you
> lug it down too hard and whack it open.

Around here that is referred to as 'abuse', 2 gears too high is lugging. Give the engine a break and use high octane gas all the time.

> This is more common if the temp is like in the 90's, so
> I try to baby it more in bad heat.

You'll have lower head temps if you keep shifting so it spins easy. Lugging/babying cooks the top end.

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Mr 650

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #27 - 09/15/04 at 04:34:25

wrench wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09:

> California may have their own requirements, though.

Thanks for the update on the seasonal gas Wrenchster.
BTW:More on the CA gas:
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/types_of_gasoline.html

Quote:

Around here that is referred to as 'abuse', 2 gears too high is lugging.

What are you riding? If I try hard enough, I may "lug" it.

It took 15 months, & hi-temps to detonate.
Look again G-man.
Suzuki rates this 8.5:1 motor for 87 octane not me. Wink

Like I said, I have tried them all and now use 90 or better. (remember that part ? You forgot to quote it)
Highway surface temps "around here" climb over 100+ in July and August ,like most.
Any air-cooled motor is subject to ping above 1/2 throttle "around here" in August. ("around here" sometimes you use WO throttle or you die )

Quote:

Give the engine a break and use high octane gas all the time.

Give me a break, I said I do.

Quote:

You'll have lower head temps if you keep shifting so it
spins easy.

"Keep shifting"Wouldn't that be "abusive"...higher gears and all, less spinning, more cylinder pressure etc.? (can't have it both ways now)

Since both 4th & 5th are overdriven, do you suggest we ride in 3rd all summer to "spin easy"? Grin

BTW:Not long after the LS was purchased, the shift linkage broke(previous owner bent it, then fatigue set in)
Had to stop, shift to 3rd by hand twisting the input shaft, and rode home w/ only 3rd. The motor was 'kept spinning' and the head (whole motor) was HOT!
It would have been cooler to ride home in 5th Grin

Quote:

Lugging/babying cooks the top end.

Make up your mind man.
You can lug it or you can baby it, just not at the same time!
See,"Around here" less throttle and more revs=babying. Wink

Now if you just don't like the way I ride, well KMA. Kiss

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SilverBlue '01,K&N,Snorklectomy,125mm NOS carb, 1/2 spacer & 155, 'Trapp, NC flyscreen, Suzy GelSeat, Osram H4
later..putt. Putt, PUtt, PUTT! 8)
HelmetLawsSuck

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klx650sm2002 Serious Thumper Offline The more I learn the less I know. Posts: 2041 Cumbria,England Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #28 - 09/15/04 at 06:15:18 4th + 5th may be "overdriven" but the 'bike is still under geared from a top speed point of view. Clive W
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za16866 Ex Member	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #29 - 09/15/04 at 06:46:36 AMEN TO THAT BRO.... if i had a nickel for every time i try to find 6th gear... i'd be donald trump.... 8) one more gear would make this machine soooo much more of a highway cruiser...
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