SuzukiSavage.com - An interesting post for tweakers

Gitarzan Serious Thumper 2004 No Login Offline ! Posts: 827 Columbus, Oh, Earth, Solar Sys Gender:	An interesting post for tweakers 09/11/04 at 06:10:31 And interesting series of tweaks from Bert's: http://www.heise-workstations.de/ls650/Fragen/messages/37079.html
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klx650sm2002 Serious Thumper Offline The more I learn the less I know. Posts: 2041 Cumbria,England Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #1 - 09/11/04 at 06:44:21 That has gathered everything together in one place, nice one. I would like to add when it's time to change the spark plug get an iridium one, that lets you run a plug gap at the maximum of the standard range and still get a consistant big spark. There's only one plug so make it a good one. Clive W
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Gitarzan Serious Thumper 2004 No Login Offline ! Posts: 827 Columbus, Oh, Earth, Solar Sys Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #2 - 09/11/04 at 10:33:19 klx650sm2002 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09: There's only one plug so make it a good one. What an excellent quote!!!
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Savage_Greg

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #3 - 09/11/04 at 11:36:58

Good collection of stuff in one place....

I don't necessarily agree with everything though. Being a conservative kinda guy, I adjust the intake and exhaust valves to .004" (the specs call for .003 to .005"). So I'm not so sure about the recommendation to adjust the intakes to .003 and the exhaust to .006".

First, it is darn hard enough to adjust them where they are located, but when using the thinnest guage in the set (.003") it is even harder. For me, when we are talking less than a piece of paper in thickness that is a close tolerance. I'd be afraid of getting it too close, and the consequences of cam shaft wear are too high. Just not a good practice in my opinion.

Second is the exhaust gap of .006". Here the valve might have more time on the valve seat, but you are even looser than specs. If the theory is correct then I'd go no larger than .005" because Suzuki receommends that. In either case, you will hear more valve clatter.

Because of the screw and nut type adjusters on the Savage, I recommend (and do) set the gap loosely at .005" on all 4 valves, and then when the nut is finally tightened it invariably turns the adjuster ever so slightly to a gap of .004". I check it and leave it there.

With that note...just imagine setting the intake to .003" and it ends up at .002". Give it a little heat expansion and it might end up being .000".

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Savage_Greg

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #4 - 09/11/04 at 12:03:50

klx650sm2002 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09:

That has gathered everything together in one place, nice one. I would like to add when it's time to change the spark plug get an iridium one, that lets you run a plug gap at the maximum of the standard range and still get a consistant big spark. There's only one plug so make it a good one.

Clive W Cheesy

People always have opinions about plugs, but I don't (for a change). All that I know is that I've changed plugs over the years, and have seen no difference. The only bikes where I saw any importance were on 2 strokes where it was easy to get them wet.

On a side note, my '99 Malibu, I did notice a slight improvement when I finally changed them at around 150,000 miles (no kidding), and she is still running right along at 205K now.

But back to the Savage. Just as an experiment, I changed mine to the hotter NGK DP7EA-9 in 2002. I noticed no change, and all I've done since is clean it and re-gap last winter. On my spouse's, she is still using the stock DP8EA-9. I put a new one in last winter, but I don't know why. It changed nothing.

My thoughts are this....the manufacturer recommends a plug. If the bike runs fine, why change it? Does a different plug really make a difference?

I've heard people complain of Savage's fouling plugs, but something else was wrong anyway. On the other hand, I've bought "Split Fires" and all kinds over the years, and they've never done anything but cost more money.

Are you saying an Iridium plug will show me something? ???

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Jon

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #5 - 09/11/04 at 14:27:36

> I don't necessarily agree with everything though.

Greg... that must be you. Wink

> Being a conservative kinda guy, I adjust the intake
> and exhaust valves to .004"

My rule, too, because aiming at .004 allows for a little error either way. Tightening the screw adjusters always blows away measuring accuracy.

Fwiw...
Regarding the MMO recommendation in the original post, that stuff does make a good top oil. But, if you want more punch as well as a little top lube add the recommended amount of Sea Foam to the gas. Sea Foam is pale oil and naphtha. I often double the suggested amount for smaller bikes and can really feel the difference. Sea Foam removes combustion chamber deposits, and after they are gone my plug readings have looked normal--no sign of leanness or heat from the naphtha.

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #6 - 09/11/04 at 18:19:10

Savage_Greg wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09:

Good collection of stuff in one place....

I don't necessarily agree with everything though. Being a conservative kinda guy, I adjust the intake and exhaust valves to .004" (the specs call for .003 to .005"). So I'm not so sure about the recommendation to adjust the intakes to .003 and the exhaust to .006".

snip

With that note...just imagine setting the intake to .003" and it ends up at .002". Give it a little heat expansion and it might end up being .000".

I am right with Greg on this. You run the risk of burning a valve if set too tight. I lean towards the loose end of Mfg. reccomended settings myself. Also if set too loose they won't ride on the cam properly and can cause excessive wear.

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Savage_Greg

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #7 - 09/12/04 at 02:44:30

Jon and Honda Fan...glad that you guys understand. I realize that everyone has their own little tricks and techniques, but since Suzuki has produced these bikes for so long, I figure that it might be a good practice to follow their specs.

I thought about posting my opinions in that forum (I have before), but hell, I tend to keep the stuff stirred up enough here anyway Roll Eyes

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #8 - 09/12/04 at 03:03:04

Jon wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09:

>
Fwiw...
Regarding the MMO recommendation in the original post, that stuff does make a good top oil. But, if you want more punch as well as a little top lube add the recommended amount of Sea Foam to the gas. Sea Foam is pale oil and naphtha. I often double the suggested amount for smaller bikes and can really feel the difference. Sea Foam removes combustion chamber deposits, and after they are gone my plug readings have looked normal--no sign of leanness or heat from the naphtha.

Okay, I did read the part about MMO in that guy's list, but here I have no opinion again Tongue

I have never used any additives, either fuel or oil, so I'll ask the question again. Will it really show me something?

For the fuel additive, I've always thought these things were for an engine with problems. As well, I've always kinda felt that adding an "oil" to the fuel would change the viscosity and burn characteristics too, which might be messing with that precious ~15 to 1 fuel to air ratio. To me that seemed like it would only make the engine run less than optimum.

I will admit that on occassion, I add a carb or fuel injector cleaner to my car's gas, but you guys are suggesting this as a regular kind of thing for a bike and one that improves performance too?

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klx650sm2002 Serious Thumper Offline The more I learn the less I know. Posts: 2041 Cumbria,England Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #9 - 09/12/04 at 05:30:43 I like to set valve clearances at the minimum end, theroy being the cam doesn't hit the valve as hard more important if you're going to rev it. KLX's have a weak coil, iridium plugs have a V small centre electrode (0.6mm 0.024") which reduces the load on the coil,thats why I use them. Clive W
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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #10 - 09/12/04 at 05:58:14

klx650sm2002 wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:09:

I like to set valve clearances at the minimum end, theroy being the cam doesn't hit the valve as hard more important if you're going to rev it.

KLX's have a weak coil, iridium plugs have a V small centre electrode (0.6mm 0.024") which reduces the load on the coil,thats why I use them.

Clive W Cheesy

Okay. I like theories. You're right that there isn't as much of an impact between the cam and follower. Now if you set the clearance at the minimum aren't you also limiting the space for oil lubrication on the cam as well? The Savage has a pretty crappy surface on the cam anyway.

Why does a small electrode reduce the load? 'Cause the electrons don't have enough space to hang around? I would think that a larger gap would cause more of a load on the coil.

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Re: An interesting post for tweakers
Reply #11 - 09/12/04 at 08:20:06

Why does a small electrode reduce the load? 'Cause the electrons don't have enough space to hang around? I would think that a larger gap would cause more of a load on the coil. [quotation from Greg]

Yes, Greg. If I go back several decades to my Air Force radar tech days I recall that a spark jumps from a sharp point more easily than from a flat or curved surface, so a smaller or sharper centre electrode would cause a quicker spark. A wider gap would require the coil to produce a greater voltage before the spark occurred. That, however, would change the timing slightly. It would advance a smidge for a sharper electrode and retard for a wider gap. My old brit bike required max manual spark advance for high revs and max retard for slow or starting. I can see split electrode plugs for "stronger" sparks but not if they cause changes in the timing. As you say there is a good reason for factory specs and plug gap is probably a good example, IMHO. Cheers, M

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Jon Ex Member	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #12 - 09/12/04 at 10:31:20 > Will it really show me something? Get a can of Sea Foam at a NAPA auto parts store and you will see.
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sunny Senior Member 2004 No Login Offline rock this town Posts: 293 d/fw texas Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #13 - 09/13/04 at 08:29:20 concerning the sea foam. is it pricey? i use a tank of gas a day when i am commuting via bike...
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klx650sm2002 Serious Thumper Offline The more I learn the less I know. Posts: 2041 Cumbria,England Gender:	Re: An interesting post for tweakers Reply #14 - 09/13/04 at 11:30:24 Anyone who has used a TIG will know about the importance of pointy electrodes. Clive W
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