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Cam chain replacement questions (Read 12 times)
justin_o_guy
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Cam chain replacement questions
04/16/07 at 17:34:48
 
While I was pulling stuff off the engine I THOUGHT I was being Ohhh so careful & observant. Imagine my surprise when I walked around the bike & saw a chunk of what looks like a kitchen scrubbie, but it's aluminum mesh, all rolled up tight. Whernahekk DUZ that thing go?  I am thinking it goes in the squarisy hole that goes down to the oil fill area, only because I cant imagine it going anywhere else.

Now, the bolt that holds the rear guide, page 3-54 Zuki manual, bottom of page below the box about Thread Lock Super "1303"  it says
Use new gasket & tighten cam chain tensioner bolt 6 to head...  What gasket? WHERE?

Also, I had a pretty good time of it getting the old, stretched chain off the cam gear, I sure hope getting the new on on isnt to big an ordeal.Wiggling the cam out was a bit of a task, too.

It says not to rotate the magneto, but the only way to get to the bolts is to turn the engine. I figure as long as the timing marks on the cam chain line up & the engine is on TDC, then the engine will be timed, specially since it fires every time it gets to TDC, theres no way to get the ignition firing ONLY when it it at TDC exhaust & not firing on compression, so, getting the cam in with its marks correct & piston at TDC = success?

I checked TDC with a pencil & got the piston at the very top, then looked in the openning & the mark was nicely lined up. It had( the piston) dropped to the bottom of the stroke overnight. Only way I can see that happening is I left it off TDC when I got the cam out.

I have "Three Bond 1104" & I have high temp black silicone. Either one okay for the head cover? Both, neither?

The end O the crank has a dot driven in it & the gear the cam chain has one & it has a painted dot, too. I dont see how these matter, tho. It seems the crank dot is at the bottom, when the pistoin is at the top, & the cam chain drive gear, the dots are on top, or were when I pulled it. I cant tell they are indexed at all & it seems to not matter in the least which way the dots linbe up, as long as piston is TDC & cam lines are aligned with the head & the bolt is at 1:00 Ocl;ock, then it oughta be timed.. Am I missin something?

My Cam Chain tensioner locking tool = 2 thicknesses of the aluminum kick panel from the screen door. I saved it when I cut the Doggie door. Trimmed with a curve in it to pass by the spring & folded so as to make a little handle to make removal easy.

Well, this is enough for now, Kiddo wants on, I will catch y'all later.

If ya cant help with the answers, just send money.. he he he...
Seriously, thanks for any help..


GREG, what kinda camera are you using to get such easy to see detail pics with? Out Kodak easy share p850 isnt cutting it,
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K1200LTryder
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #1 - 04/16/07 at 18:31:19
 
Very good post !........You might want to make sure that the piston is at TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke....otherwise, you could be 180* out on the valve timing....sounds like you are doing a great job, but there are really 2 TDC's ....intake, and exhaust...

Hope this helps !
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #2 - 04/16/07 at 18:37:53
 
I was thinking that with the cam on the table I was gonna see to it the timing was fine when I was done. since I will be setting the cam to TDC Compression when I install it with the lines lined up on the head & the bolt at 1 o:clock,,
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Kropatchek
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #3 - 04/17/07 at 07:57:34
 
Here's some answers:
Q:>>a chunk of what looks like a kitchen scrubbie, but it's aluminum mesh, all rolled up tight. Whernahekk DUZ that thing go?

A: It's supposed to go inside the headCOVER in the squarish hole that has the breather pipe on the ouside.

Q:>>>Now, the bolt that holds the rear guide, page 3-54 Zuki manual, bottom of page below the box about Thread Lock Super "1303"  it says
Use new gasket & tighten cam chain tensioner bolt 6 to head...  What gasket? WHERE?  
A: I think they refer to the gasket or rubberized washer that fastens the top of the rear chain guide.

Q:>>The end O the crank has a dot driven in it & the gear the cam chain has one & it has a painted dot, too. I dont see how these matter, tho.
A: The dot on the crankshaft and the dot on the small gear have to line-up.

Q:>>If ya cant help with the answers, just send money.. he he he...  
Seriously, thanks for any help..  
A:Answers don't cost anything, keep your money.

When you're putting the new chain on keep the crankshaft in TDC, the dot on the CS will tell you it's there. When you have the LH side accessable check again.
By aligning the marks on the camshaft ( with the cams down) then you're at TDC compression stroke. Keep the FWD side of the chain tight and alter a tooth more or less, you see the timing change. So with the marks in the camshaft horizontal and the holes of the locating pin lined-up insert one bolt ( with the security plate in place) and rotate the crankshaft to access the other bolt hole.
That's all there is to it, camchain replaced

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Never ask your bike to scream before her throat is warm.
'93 Sav in '96 ( yellow) looks
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #4 - 04/17/07 at 20:31:41
 
Okay, well, I done did the deal before I came & read the answers. SO, I poked the aluminum scrubbie right where ya said, & did everything else right, BUT, the cam chain gear & the crank gear , the dots dont line up. I put the cam chain gear on in several places & they all felt the same. So, I did it with the dot on bottom on the crank & on top on the cam chain gear. Now, I have run the engine around several times by hand & checked timing, when the crank mark is lined up on the left side, the cam lines are aligned with the head & the It all looks good, IF knowing this someone is certain what I have done wont work,, lemme know,, Cuz I am gonna button that dude up very soon! The cam chain went in easier than it came out, Heres something I DONT like, tho,, the tensioner is out .333 inches already, with the new chain & the tweaked guide,, GRRR!,,

Thanks so much for the answers,,
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verslagen1
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #5 - 04/17/07 at 21:19:06
 
Hey all, still working on mine.
I have a guide on order and won't be here till friday.
After seeing Grims oil pump chewing on plastic didn't like the cracks I saw in mine.

Kropatchek said after chain and guide replacement tensioner was out 11mm (7/16") so don't be bummed Justin, that's the way it is.

I'm going with continue with the old chain and add a stop to the tensioner so it can't come apart also weld an additional tab for extended adjustment.  Of course the adjustable tab allows more variabity but more risk, as these parts can come apart.
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K1200LTryder
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #6 - 04/18/07 at 04:55:03
 
Must have been wrench day yesterday. I finally stripped mine down ,all excecpt for the crank gear (where is that 27mm socket anyways ?), and the tensioner was hung at a 45*angle upwards, the spring had popped out and was found in 3 pieces trapped betewwen the gasket and the clutch cover. After pulling the cam gear, I managed to get the rear guide out, and it is TOAST. (not even worth bending into shape, all cracked up).

So I have a couple of questions;

1 , how long is the tensioner spring, and can it be bought seperate ?

2, Does any body have pics on how this cannot happen again ? ie; stopping the spring from popping out.

3, what's the best way to clean out the sump ? ( I'm thinking of mineral spirits)

Thanks for the help, this is becoming interesting, as well as challenging.
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #7 - 04/18/07 at 06:33:51
 
I have a descrition of whay I did to stop the tensioner from allowing the spring to eject into the case.. Reall, if ya look at it, the iudea is simple. All that has to happen is limit the "Swing" of the ratchet/pawl, that clicks every time a new "tooth" passes under it, Then, notice how much further it has to travel to allow the full diameter of the tensioner to [ass under the ratchet/pawl & dril;l a hole & run a piece of something hard across it, Piano wire or a locator pin of any type, Ya see pinns of rolled spring steel in lots of places. Can't interfere with the spring, can't limit the travel so it cant operate normally, gotta limit the vtravel so as to halt the tensioners progress as soon as it is outta notches. You can do that. Any one can, cuz I done did it, so its gotta be easy...
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Kropatchek
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #8 - 04/18/07 at 08:27:38
 
K1200LTryder wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
Must have been wrench day yesterday. I finally stripped mine down ,all excecpt for the crank gear (where is that 27mm socket anyways ?), and the tensioner was hung at a 45*angle upwards, the spring had popped out and was found in 3 pieces trapped betewwen the gasket and the clutch cover. After pulling the cam gear, I managed to get the rear guide out, and it is TOAST. (not even worth bending into shape, all cracked up).
So I have a couple of questions;

1 , how long is the tensioner spring, and can it be bought seperate ?

2, Does any body have pics on how this cannot happen again ? ie; stopping the spring from popping out.

3, what's the best way to clean out the sump ? ( I'm thinking of mineral spirits)

Thanks for the help, this is becoming interesting, as well as challenging.


Answers:
1) Spring not available separate, you have to buy a new tensioner+ a guide + chain+gasket, etc.
2) I have a couple of pictures of a modified ( with a stop)tensioner that I can sent you by e-mail
3) Affermative
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Never ask your bike to scream before her throat is warm.
'93 Sav in '96 ( yellow) looks
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verslagen1
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #9 - 04/18/07 at 09:22:31
 
K - I have extra spring (curtesy of Kropatchek) if that's all you need.  I'm working on a mod to the housing to lock the plunger in.  I haven't worked out all the dimensions yet, so won't post yet.  But I'm going to put a slot in the housing, drill the plunger and press a pin in to engage with the slot to permanetly lock the 2 together.  I can do another if you want it, just send the housing and plunger.

Justin method should work - but I don't like the piano wire.  I've fiddled with that stuff enough not to trust it.

There's also a mod on the German savage site.

I'm also going to do the slavy plunger mod - weld an extra tab to the plunger for an additional mounting hole.

Question for all concerned - How long should this tab be?

We've been advised to replace parts when the tensioner sticks out 18mm (.71").  Several have noted that when these parts are replaced the tensioner still sticks out 9mm(.35") or more.  Right now I'm thinking 12.4mm(.5") to 15.9mm(.625").  Grin
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K1200LTryder
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #10 - 04/18/07 at 10:01:20
 
Thanks Krop and Verslagen

email addy:

cliffsplace32@hotmail.com

I can send pics along if you like....including my "other" bikes....LOL


Ordering a new tensioner/guide/gasket, later on today...I still have to pick up a socket...30MM ? for the crankgear...then get that off and the chain out to measure it.

From what I've seen here, chain stretch is not a big issue, if it is well withing wear limits I will re-use it.
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justin_o_guy
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #11 - 04/18/07 at 10:20:20
 
32 for the clutch, 30 crank, I got a set of deep impact 1/2" at Horbor freight pretty reasonable on the $$, but Ill bet a coule of individual sockets could be rounded up calling a few pawn shops if you already have a set & just need to add to it.
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K1200LTryder
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #12 - 04/18/07 at 11:52:17
 
thanks justin-o......just came home on a break, measured it with a caliper, and voila !!!...."1 3/16 socket...had one buried, and it worked fine...chain measures 125MM, so it's well within limits....

...not so well with the tensioner though, it's all galled up inside....TOAST !

17,000 miles on the bike....probable cause of failure was lack of service....although the engine is very clean inside, it probably suffered from regular fresh oil.
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Kropatchek
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Re: Cam chain replacement questions
Reply #13 - 04/19/07 at 01:47:38
 
K1200LTryder wrote on 12/31/69 at 16:00:04:
Thanks Krop and Verslagen



Ordering a new tensioner/guide/gasket, later on today...I still have to pick up a socket...30MM ? for the crankgear...then get that off and the chain out to measure it.

From what I've seen here, chain stretch is not a big issue, if it is well withing wear limits I will re-use it.


NOTE: The nut on the crankshaft has LEFTHAND thread. An electrical or pneumatic impact driver works fine for loosening.
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Never ask your bike to scream before her throat is warm.
'93 Sav in '96 ( yellow) looks
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