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I'm not building a race bike this time (Read 179 times)
Michael Moore
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #15 - 05/27/24 at 09:18:25
 
I think the light clutch pull comes down more to leverage in the hand lever/throw-out mechanism, clutch spring stiffness, how much spring pressure is needed for a given number of plates (more plates/friction area should need less pressure), torque seen at the clutch (mount the clutch on the crankshaft instead of after the primary gear reduction and you can use a lower capacity clutch because it sees a lower torque) etc.  I don't see anything inherent to reversing the clutch pack in the basket that would give a lighter pull at the hand lever.

Try a Laverda twin/triple if you want a clutch lever that will give you a good workout.  Smiley
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Michael Moore
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #16 - 05/27/24 at 15:41:38
 
Here's a photo of someone's broken clutch release cam



Notice the corner where the cam probably first broke (a thinner section than where the other break is located, I'm presuming the second break away from a corner came after the first allowed the cam to be wedged open).  Now look at the cam that I clayed and then installed and rotated to see what kind of clearance there is.  The clay is outside the corner at the lower right in the photo.  



Even with improved material in the cam I think it might be worthwhile adding some more metal outside of that corner since it might be "the weakest link" in the cam.

There was a related comment in the "background" section of the Snap-On flank drive patent document:

"However, due to this engagement, the socket may become pre-maturely fatigued and fail due to repeated stress being placed on the socket walls from the corners of the fastener. In addition, upon application of torque to the fastener, the fastener can become frictionally locked in the socket due to minor amounts of rotation of the fastener within the socket or easily stripped due to inadequate head to socket interaction."  

So the existing design may contribute both to the fracturing at an inside corner of the cam as well as the smearing of the shaft at the two corners that are 180* apart on the shaft that apply the torque to the cam.  I looked at the shaft I have here and the other pair of corners are unmarked, which isn't surprising since all the loading is done in one direction, so the unmarked corners never see any (appreciable) load on them.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #17 - 05/31/24 at 11:45:28
 
Armen wrote on 05/25/24 at 14:35:52:
Gung ho!
I pushed a dead cylinder head thru the bandsaw.
Really shows how bad the exhaust port sucks.


You mean how bad the exhaust port "blows".

Is there a novice's version of a simple exhaust port job that can be done on the exhaust port without pulling the head off the motor and putting it on a bench?  Like get the exhaust valves closed, header pipe removed, and get after some excess material with a dremel or angle grinder?
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Michael Moore
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #18 - 05/31/24 at 12:51:49
 
That doesn't sound like a good plan to me, though I suppose you might avoid getting debris in places it doesn't belong.  It seems kind of like announcing "I just cleaned the cesspool with my bare hands, but I'm sure that I can fix dinner safely without washing my hands if I'm careful."   Shocked

Instead, consider it an opportunity to clean everything and give all the parts a close inspection (you'll have to expose the cam, valve tips, cam chain and tensioner stuff) and maybe install a piston and cam at the same time along with the modified cam chain tensioner, head plug, etc.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #19 - 05/31/24 at 13:07:08
 
Michael Moore wrote on 05/31/24 at 12:51:49:
That doesn't sound like a good plan to me, though I suppose you might avoid getting debris in places it doesn't belong.  It seems kind of like announcing "I just cleaned the cesspool with my bare hands, but I'm sure that I can fix dinner safely without washing my hands if I'm careful."   Shocked

Instead, consider it an opportunity to clean everything and give all the parts a close inspection (you'll have to expose the cam, valve tips, cam chain and tensioner stuff) and maybe install a piston and cam at the same time along with the modified cam chain tensioner, head plug, etc.


That's true.  Assuming you do it the correct way, I'd still want a more idiot proof way to remove the most offensive material and least risk of doing more harm than good.  I'll keep following what you do on your exhaust port.  Maybe you can point out the low hanging fruit as you go.
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #20 - 05/31/24 at 13:13:27
 
It is possible, but you do risk getting metal particles in the engine.
You would need to stuff paper towels inside both exhaust ports before removing the outer ring from the outer port.
Once the outer ring is removed you need to vacuum the ports clean, then remove the paper towels carefully, vacuum again and then wipe everything again insuring the ports are clean enough to eat on.
If you choose to do this, be careful and be super clean.
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Michael Moore
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #21 - 05/31/24 at 13:48:38
 
Considering the way Mr. Murphy likes to drop in to see what he can "help" with, I'd expect those paper towels to get grabbed by the burr and whirled around AFTER they've gotten loaded with chips.

Isn't there an old saying about "I didn't have time to do it right, but I had time to do it over"?  I've resembled that remark a few times over the years and I'm trying to control the urge for expediency.  Smiley  

Paul, DBM has got links to about 60 of his very clear and useful articles here

https://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1615569533

I'm not sure that I'm likely to be able to improve on anything he's already covered (and yes, I have read all of those links).  Maybe I can come up with something useful that he's not addressed, but it is likely to be some obscure point that may not be of use to many people.
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #22 - 05/31/24 at 14:40:53
 
Yup, Murphy and I are well acquainted.  A vacuum and some towels would definitely be hanging around.  I wonder if you could get some plumbers putty up in there and seal it up a bit.  

I need to go back through DBMs documentation.  I was just marveling at your's and Armen's handy work.  Thinking....I don't have the tenacity to do all that.
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« Last Edit: 05/31/24 at 15:41:42 by ThumperPaul »  
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Michael Moore
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #23 - 06/03/24 at 14:34:54
 
While I'm thinking about clutch cams and shafts I did some planning work on the topic of Wheels/Tires:

I have no interest in using the original 19" and 15" wire spoke wheels with tubed tires. I have two options on hand, though my suspicions about one of them was proven when I weighed them (part of the planning process is determining weights of parts where weight is a factor).

The first option is a set of wheels from a Suzuki GSXR-750 circa about 1989. These 3 spoke cast wheels were used on my friend Steve's "Yellow Bike" project, an early CBR600 Honda frame with the Suzuki wheels, brakes and forks and a Yamaha XS650 twin engine.



These are 3.5" x 17" front and 4.5" x 17" rear. The second option is a set of wheels from a more modern small sport bike. I was originally going to get a complete set of Kawasaki EX400 Ninja wheels/rotors/sprocket but missed out on what seemed a good price for a set of very clean parts. Since this is not a race project I didn't want to spend $1000s on fancy wheels, and the $750 asked for the Kawasaki wheels (3.0" x 17" front and 4.0" x 17" rear) was appealing. I looked around on eBay and then remembered the CBR250/CBR300 Honda singles that were 2.75" x 17" front and 4.0" x 17" rear, so the same size on the back as the Kawasaki but .25" narrower on the front. When I started looking at them on eBay I found that they didn't seem to be valued very highly. I was able to buy a very clean set without tires AND a complete swing arm with spindles/spacers/adjusters AND a rear caliper and carrier and master cylinder for a bit more than 1/2 the price I had been willing to pay for the Kawasaki wheels/rotors/sprocket. Score!

The Suzuki dual rotors are 310mm OD as is the Kawasaki single front rotor, and the Honda single rotor is 296mm. I'll see if I can find some numbers posted for the weights of the Kawasaki wheels, but the GSXR front with a single rotor and no tire is 14.8 pounds, the rear complete with rotor and sprocket/carrier is 21.7 pounds, the Honda front is 13.2 pounds and the Honda rear is 18.6 pounds, for a total difference of the Honda set being 4.7 pounds lighter. Plus, the Honda rims are narrower than the Suzuki rims so I can run narrower (and likely lighter) tires on them. The OEM Dunlop GPR300 tires on my Ninja 400 seem fine, and the Savage will need a 50% boost in horsepower to match the Kawasaki (weights are somewhat similar) so I don't think there is a need for the wider (and heavier) Suzuki wheels. But until I weighed both sets of wheels I couldn't say which I should plan on using.

Brakes:

The 296mm front rotor on the Honda wheel is probably "good enough" but I have on hand a new Brake Tech racing rotor for a Yamaha R1. It is 330mm OD and 6mm thick. The weight is pretty much equal to the Honda OEM rotor but it will need a small adapter to bridge the space from the wheel hub out to the mounting points for the Yamaha wheel. Until that is made so I can weigh the extra fasteners and the adapter I'll fudge a bit and consider the two rotors as being the same 3.3 pounds weight.

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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #24 - 06/04/24 at 22:32:25
 
Yeah , those rims will help it to not look like a race bike. Have you found a frame or are you fabbing your own ? Awhile back I saw LS650 in a 1971 BSA 500 .
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #25 - 06/05/24 at 01:43:18
 
I'm lovin those wheels.  That BIG front rotor will be nice, as will the absence of inner tubes and more readily available tires.  Sweet.
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Michael Moore
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #26 - 06/05/24 at 08:41:14
 
The Honda wheels look similar to some OZ forged Moto3 race wheels that I've got, which is fine with me.

It doesn't take much of a tire to be faster than I am, but I am more comfortable when I know that I've got some premium tires on the bike that will give me some help if traction gets dodgy.

I've got to retain the 650 steering head with VIN, other than that I can do whatever seems like a good idea at the time.
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Re: I'm not building a race bike this time
Reply #27 - 06/05/24 at 10:04:16
 
Michael,

You are getting increadible value for the money in these wheels, and they look great too!.
I checked up what the going rate is in Europe, where this bike is not common, and found only 1 set of wheels, from Italy. At 3 times the price that seems common in US. You guys are lucky, but then, 17" is not for me.

I can hardly wait to see the frame you come up with.
Great work you are doing.

Cheers, Finn Hammer
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