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Terrible primary gear whine (Read 150 times)
04Savage04
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Terrible primary gear whine
04/16/24 at 16:53:18
Well after chasing few things its quite obvious I was taken on this bike I just bought. It has ridiculous loud gear whine on deceleration in any gear. Drives normal otherwise. After I bought it went to change the oil I noticed it was very thick oil and sure enough after changing it this noise got very loud. I also noticed they had the idle sky high so it wouldn't decel in gear. So I got taken on this deal.
Anyone else experience anything like this? I'm assuming it has worn crank bearings etc and the gears are not messing well on decel. Its loud! Honestly I'm not going into the engine but just giggles I like to know anyone has had this type of trouble. What a waste of money on this and there is noway I'm going to rip another rider off with this bike. Gonna list it as primary noise best offer! EFF IT!
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #1 -
04/16/24 at 17:29:36
That's a very specific diagnosis. How do you know it's the primary gear? Previous post was about tire clearance being your noise on decel.
The 140/90 tire fits fine. Many Savage owners run 140/90.
For the $1200 you paid, you can expect some issues. What's your mileage? I doubt it's a bad primary gear.
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04Savage04
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #2 -
04/16/24 at 18:57:55
The rear tire was damaged badly and certainly would have blown soon. 2 of the bolts were wearing hard in the tire with the shocks set at its lowest level. When I pulled the shocks off and raised the rear wheel the bolts jammed against the tire hard enough I couldn't turn it by hand. I opened up the sissy bar 1/4 inch and shaved the bolt heads so only 1/8th inch head is left and now I have about 1/32 clearance. between the bolt head and tire. The tire is way too wide. Some of the noise I was hearing was the bolts grinding against the tire. Now with tire clearance fixed you can clearly hear the primary gear on the right side whining. Can't miss it. I did a search online and found ALOT of similar complaints about it so I'm guessing its normal for this bike. I hope. If you are running a Shinko 140-90 tire best look at the sidewall for damage. Can't miss it, tore up the tire pretty good. The left side of the tire has tons of room between the bolts and tire. 8500 miles
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Savard 05
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #3 -
04/17/24 at 03:47:10
Mine has a slight whine sometimes I'm pretty sure it's the belt might be your case to check the belt is riding mostly even on pulley and check belt tension and maybe even clean the belt oand pulleys debris.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #4 -
04/17/24 at 05:49:52
Sounds like someone used different bolts on the back fender and sissy bar. A 140/90 isn’t terrible taller than a 150/80.
150mm x 0.8 = 120mm tall
140mm x 0.9 = 126mm tall
That’s only 6mm (x2, so 12mm total) and the tire is 10mm narrower. I use the 150/80 because that’s what I’ve used before and I’m no where near a clearance problem.
A 140/80 is 112mm tall. So, 14mm x 2 shorter than 140/90.
Agree with Savard 05 - check the belt. Also, check the front belt pulley to make sure it’s not rubbing against the pulley cover. An old S40 I had, the prior owner left out some of the grommets, washers, and spacers and the pulley would rub against the pulley cover. That was more of a grinding sound than a whining sound.
This stuff is hard to figure out without seeing and hearing it firsthand.
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04Savage04
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #5 -
04/17/24 at 07:15:32
If its normal noise then so be it, not gonna mess with it. The tire height really isn't the trouble its the width on the right side. Its stupid close with this Shinko tire. Maybe the Shinko is wider than other tires the same size. The bolts sure looked factory to me. I talked with the people I bought it from and they simply had it to the dealer for service. Dealer put the heavy oil in and changed the tires! Before I opened up the sissy bar 1/4 inch the fender was 1mm from the tires edge and the entire bolt heads were into the tire when the suspension moved. I'm dam lucky I only drove it a few miles with the shocks all the way down. I'll check out the belt next, I have severe arthritis gonna take a break for a few days my hands swollen badly from yesterdays marathon LOL.
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04Savage04
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #6 -
04/17/24 at 07:18:22
Savard 05 wrote
on 04/17/24 at 03:47:10:
Mine has a slight whine sometimes I'm pretty sure it's the belt might be your case to check the belt is riding mostly even on pulley and check belt tension and maybe even clean the belt oand pulleys debris.
This isn't a slight whine, iTS LOUD on the right side. I'm doubtful it normal noise but i'm going drive it a few more miles. I'm talking louder than the running engine on decel.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #7 -
04/17/24 at 12:00:01
Your rear tire rub is very interesting. Is there a chance that your rear wheel is off-center? There are four spacers associated with the rear wheel. Two are exposed and two are inside the assembly. The right-side spacer is considerably thinner than the left-side spacer. Is there a chance that these spacers could have been mixed up or left out, resulting in your rear wheel shifting to the right? The right-side spacer should be 22.3mm thick.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #8 -
04/17/24 at 12:02:08
Is there a chance that your bike was involved in an accident? If the swingarm is bent, it can cause the tire to rub. A rub on the right side would result from the left side of the swingarm being higher than the right side.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #9 -
04/17/24 at 12:13:15
Regarding your "Primary Noise". The early models had a primary drive ratio of 36/68 while the late models have a primary ratio of 37/67. It is possible to mix them up (difficult but possible). They will engage almost all the way, then nut will do the rest. I tried to fit them up just to see. It would be ugly, and I can imagine the noise would be impressive. It's easy to check.
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04Savage04
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #10 -
04/17/24 at 13:53:13
I looked at the spacers and they look like in the proper place. I'm not sure I suspect the primary has been off because there is writing on it in magic marker. I'm gonna have to pull it and at least see if I can find anything. Under acceleration its dead quiet but dam you let off in any gear and you know there is a gear in there. ITS LOUD While I have it off i''ll count the teeth. Its a 04 do you what it should have? I was thinking maybe buy a used set of gear on Fleabay and replace them. Measure the crank end play maybe that's the issue too.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #11 -
04/17/24 at 14:36:25
You should have 37/67. Because you only make noise during deceleration, I suspect your issue is with the final drive, not the primary. But I haven't had the benefit of hearing the noise.
Don't overlook Paul's comment regarding the pulley cover. It's easy to screw up. Easy to check too.
There are thick grommets and thin grommets. The thick ones go on the inside, the thin ones go on the outside. If you reverse them it rubs on the pulley. Makes a lot of noise. To check, just remove the cover and take a short ride. Of course, you need to be careful not to get your pants tangled up in the pulley.
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04Savage04
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #12 -
04/17/24 at 15:06:59
I will certainly check it out some more but the noise is coming from the right front of the engine. Its that loud its pretty much unmistakable. I don't know what oil they had ion it but it was very thick, maybe rotella and really didn't notice the noise until after I changed it to 10-40 vavoline. I remember thinking why would anyone use such a thick oil in a motorcycle? I'm going to drive it some more and see what it does. I'm interested to see how much end play the crank has, that could easily account for the noise if its excessive.
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04Savage04
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #13 -
04/18/24 at 07:56:01
After thinking about this over night I think you may have something on the spacing on the rear rim. I noticed the belt hangs to the outside of the rear pulley too. Do you know where I can find a layout diagram of what should be where? Right now the short spacer is on the right side and the longer on the left but you mention a internal spacer. Maybe something funky going on in there. I was surprised to find the tire jamming up against the bolts but so far I can't find any logic in it except the oversize tire.
I also searched online and found quite a few people on this site and others complaining about the exact same whine noise. Heavy whine like a old Jeep only on decel. One post claimed switching to Rotella stopped most of it. They didn't mention which Rotella they used though 4 5 or 6. Honestly next time I buy a bike its going for a extended ride! I got a great deal on it but not having to worry on blowing the rear tire gears etc just aint makin me jump for joy. Makes me very uneasy to drive this after seeing that tire chopped up like that.
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04Savage04
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Re: Terrible primary gear whine
Reply #14 -
04/18/24 at 18:35:28
I used a bore scope to try and get a look at the [rimary gear but too much stuff in the way. Gonna pull the cover off tomorrow and check a few things. Probably do something with the cam tensioner while the cover is off.
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