SuzukiSavage.com - Piece of dowel rod in cylinder

DragBikeMike Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 4408 Honolulu	Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder Reply #75 - 11/22/23 at 11:43:39 Here is the view through the intake port. It is a pretty good view IMO.
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DragBikeMike

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #76 - 11/22/23 at 11:46:20

If you have the bike on the side stand it should be fairly easy to move the wooden piece down the piston to the left had side of the combustion chamber. As you can see from this picture, you will have a decent shot at removal. The top of the piston is in plain view and it's the freeway of love runnin past that valve. You can do this.

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #77 - 11/22/23 at 12:48:35

DragBikeMike may be onto something.

Remove the header and carb, jack open the intake and exhaust valves and then move the piston up as high as it will go in the cylinder (get the piston at TDC so the cam is not trying to open/close the valves. Then then use your shop vac to blow into the exhaust port. The intake valves have a larger size - so that may the direction to try and blow it out.

You can try using the spark plug hole and your pile cleaner or other bendy device to try and shove the dowel around into the air flow.

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DragBikeMike Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 4408 Honolulu	Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder Reply #78 - 11/22/23 at 14:08:16 DO NOT ROTATE ENGINE WITH VALVES JACKED OPEN. Position the engine at TDC on compression stroke before you jack open the valves. Once the piece is removed, back off the adjusters before attempting to rotate the engine. If you try to rotate the engine with valves jacked open you will break something.
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ohiomoto

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #79 - 11/22/23 at 20:13:53

The way I see it, DBM's method would have on the path of pulling the head which is what we all know is what should really happen if you fail to remove it through a hole.

The happy button will surely leave you sad and it could easily lead to piston or rod damage.

The termite idea would probably work. They need to eat and they will die when they run out of food. Then you just stick a spark plug in there and incinerate them. Poof done!

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #80 - 11/23/23 at 02:03:19

This topic is really interesting and we have come across so many good tips.

I am a big supporter of the natural approach, so I would first try out termites. Maybe you could buy them in a pet store.

On the other hand, Dave (Drag bike Mike) also has a point.

I am too shy to impose my methods, but they are the best.

I think it's all in the hands of Tumperpaul and his decisiveness now.

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« Last Edit: 11/23/23 at 05:27:45 by zevenenergie »

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ThumperPaul

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #81 - 11/23/23 at 04:54:15

Thanks guys. With the time spent by all of you, one of you gurus could have pulled the head, extracted the chunk and reassembled. I envy y’all’s knowledge and abilities!! Thank you very much for helping me.

DBM - how much do I need to back off the adjuster screws without them falling out and ending up in some undesirable place?

Also finding TDC on the compression stoke is what got me here in the first place. I know how to find the top and use the timing marks, but knowing if I’m on the compression stroke has always been a bit elusive to me…. All the valves should be closed and I “should” be able to wiggle the rocker arms a little (what if they are just way out of clearance spec and I get a false positive). I think the compression stroke at TDC is right AFTER the intake valves open and close. I clearly have limited experience and skills.

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OK.... so what's the
speed of dark?

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #82 - 11/23/23 at 05:59:13

Sorry you missed it
Tech Section

Find TDC... the easy way...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1278347767

Quote:

Note: Please post questions in the Rubberside or PM me...

Problem,... trying to figure out if you are on the compression stroke when you line up the timing mark... (TDC mark will line up on both the compression and exhaust stroke... to adjust valves you must be on the compression stroke...)
How do you know which one you are on?..

Solution,... With the valve covers removed, and the timing nut accessed,...
Crank the engine counter-clockwise using a 17mm socket in the timing hole with your left hand, while resting the fingers of your right hand on the intake rockers...
When you feel the intake rockers go down,... you are on the intake downstroke, the next one coming as the intake rockers come back up and the timing mark lines up, will be the compression stroke...
So now, look into the timing hole and watch for the mark to line up (Note...as you continue turning CCW to reach the mark, the intake rockers will will come up to their highest point, this closes the valve)...
Bingo!... you are lined up, and on the correct cycle for your valve check... Wink

...
(At the top of the compression stroke, with the timing mark lined up, both the intake and exhaust valves are fully closed and ready for gap adjustment to .004")...
Once you have TDC...
See here for info on how to measure gap and adjust...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1325991352
http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/TDC-IndexMarksE.jpg
image borrowed from Digger...

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #83 - 11/26/23 at 12:15:28

Thanks Serowbot. I have read this before and in other sources. I still have a hard time identifying when both intake and exhaust valves are closed by looking at the both sets of rocker arms. What's really dumb of me is that the dowel rod down the plug hole really doesn't help (aside from seeing it come to top and go down).

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #84 - 11/27/23 at 05:44:48

Thanks again DragBikeMike! After a weekend off and no fiddling around, I’m going to try jacking open the intake valves (at least the left). And thanks for the caution about not letting the engine crank move or turn over.

Clarification: For engine position. Find TDC on compression stroke first. Then lower the piston 1/8th. Would this be about a 45° rotation of the crank or more like 90° rotation past TDC on the compression stroke? I want to set this once correctly so I don’t mess up and try to turn the engine in a brain fart moment.

Then I’m going to mix suggestions to get decent air flow in the cylinder. I’m going to use my air compressor to push air thru the plug hole and a canister vacuum to suck at the valve intake (manifold is removed already). My hope is to blow/suck that piece up to the valves. Perhaps getting it stuck and wedged between the valve and valve seat. Then, carefully extract it from that stuck position with some long bent forceps. I don’t think it’s magically going to get sucked out with all the different angles and shapes (that would be too lucky). It’s going to need some mechanical help to make the final journey out.

to think positively! Any additional suggestions before I give this a shot?

Thanks.

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #85 - 11/27/23 at 10:13:07

Paul, I suspect you might be able to leave it at TDC, but in the event the valves touch the piston before you get them open far enough, the 1/8 “ additional clearance might be necessary. You should be able to achieve that with only about 10 degrees of rotation. You want that piston as far up as practical so you have the best access to the wood piece.

I think you can see from my pictures that the visual access is pretty good, and it looks to me like you will be able to fish it out. Looks to me like having all 4 valves jacked open is also an excellent option.

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #86 - 11/27/23 at 12:44:52

ThumperPaul wrote on 11/27/23 at 05:44:48:

Thanks again DragBikeMike! After a weekend off and no fiddling around, I’m going to try jacking open the intake valves (at least the left). And thanks for the caution about not letting the engine crank move or turn over.

Clarification: For engine position. Find TDC on compression stroke first. Then lower the piston 1/8th. Would this be about a 45° rotation of the crank or more like 90° rotation past TDC on the compression stroke? I want to set this once correctly so I don’t mess up and try to turn the engine in a brain fart moment.

Then I’m going to mix suggestions to get decent air flow in the cylinder. I’m going to use my air compressor to push air thru the plug hole and a canister vacuum to suck at the valve intake (manifold is removed already). My hope is to blow/suck that piece up to the valves. Perhaps getting it stuck and wedged between the valve and valve seat. Then, carefully extract it from that stuck position with some long bent forceps. I don’t think it’s magically going to get sucked out with all the different angles and shapes (that would be too lucky). It’s going to need some mechanical help to make the final journey out.

to think positively! Any additional suggestions before I give this a shot?

Thanks.

Rubber side up.

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #87 - 11/27/23 at 13:21:49

Position of the timing mark about 80° past TDC on the compression stroke lowered the piston about 1” in the jug (give or take). Now time to remove the intake valve adjuster nut and give the adjuster screw exactly 13 turns in until flush with the rocker arm. Then no touching anything (socket wrench removed from the crank).

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ThumperPaul Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 1743 Houston, Texas Gender:	Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder Reply #88 - 11/27/23 at 17:09:46 I jacked open the left intake valve and tried today. It's not coming out. I'm going to take a break and step back. Dual exhaust and turbo charger, but no spark or fuel.
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DragBikeMike

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Re: Piece of dowel rod in cylinder
Reply #89 - 11/28/23 at 00:04:47

Paul, IMO you have the piston positioned too far down the hole. You want the piston very close to TDC and enough valves jacked open so you can illuminate the combustion chamber. You can see from my pics that all four valves jacked open provides good visual access.

If you are positioned at 80 degrees after TDC, then I assume your timing mark on the alternator rotor is close to the 12 o-clock position. I think you should back off the valve adjuster 13 to 14 turns, and then rotate the timing mark clockwise until your timing mark is either lined up with the mark on the case or just a few degrees past the mark on the case.

Once the crank is repositioned close to TDC, jack open all four valves so you can get a good look see. Shine a flashlight in one port while looking into the other port. You should be able to clearly see the wood piece. Once you can see the wood piece it should be fairly east to fish it out.

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