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What could be the source of this engine rattle? (Read 211 times)
verslagen1
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #15 - 07/28/23 at 22:11:11
 
the sound is tinny to me, like a loose piece of sheet metal.
feel around and check all the usual suspects.
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #16 - 07/29/23 at 05:47:36
 
Get yourself a 12” section of 1” wooden dowel and use it as a stethoscope to determine where the noise is actually coming from.
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #17 - 07/29/23 at 10:03:10
 
So I got a stethoscope and listened to my everywhere on the engine, the only place that produces metallic knocking noise is the head. I am not sure if this is the source of my noise, I imagine its somewhat normal for the valves to make metallic noises as they go up and down?
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #18 - 07/29/23 at 11:18:29
 
That's a very interesting noise.  You are in a difficult situation.

As I recall, you don't do the work on your bike.  You take it to a shop.  If that is the case, what do you hope to accomplish by posting the video?  

IMO, you would be better off finding a really good trustworthy shop and let them figure it out.  Typically, the advice provided on the forum is utilized by the person asking the question.  Putting the forum members in between you and the shop only adds confusion. It erodes trust between you and the shop.

On the other hand, if you were to do the work yourself, then you would always have first-hand knowledge of exactly what has been checked, how it looked, if it was tight or loose, how it was adjusted, etc.  You would also learn a lot, improve your skill set, and accumulate the necessary tools.

If I got your situation wrong, please set me straight.

The noise in your vid seems to be more predominant at the top of the engine, and you say it is on the left side.  My vote is decompression release mechanism.  Loosen up the cable and see if the tapping goes away.
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #19 - 07/29/23 at 12:25:07
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 07/29/23 at 11:18:29:
That's a very interesting noise.  You are in a difficult situation.

As I recall, you don't do the work on your bike.  You take it to a shop.  If that is the case, what do you hope to accomplish by posting the video?  

IMO, you would be better off finding a really good trustworthy shop and let them figure it out.  Typically, the advice provided on the forum is utilized by the person asking the question.  Putting the forum members in between you and the shop only adds confusion. It erodes trust between you and the shop.

On the other hand, if you were to do the work yourself, then you would always have first-hand knowledge of exactly what has been checked, how it looked, if it was tight or loose, how it was adjusted, etc.  You would also learn a lot, improve your skill set, and accumulate the necessary tools.

If I got your situation wrong, please set me straight.

The noise in your vid seems to be more predominant at the top of the engine, and you say it is on the left side.  My vote is decompression release mechanism.  Loosen up the cable and see if the tapping goes away.


Thank you. I do some work on my bike, but for more complex stuff I take it to a shop.

To access the decomp mechanism, is it just the tank I need to remove?
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #20 - 07/29/23 at 14:18:52
 
You can see some of the mechanics with the tank in place.
But to see if the cam hits the rocker, you need to pull the tank and front inspection cover then rotate the crank while observing the rocker
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #21 - 07/29/23 at 16:52:55
 
Tried to pick up the noise with my gopro microphone, you can really hear it starting at the 45 second mark. With the stethoscope this metallic noise is definitely coming from the head. I guess I'll take off the tank and check the decompression system first, it is my understanding that I can disconnect it all together and run the bike to see if the noise disappears?

https://youtu.be/9Jm3aXktFlg
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verslagen1
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #22 - 07/29/23 at 19:24:43
 
och wrote on 07/29/23 at 16:52:55:
I guess I'll take off the tank and check the decompression system first, it is my understanding that I can disconnect it all together and run the bike to see if the noise disappears?

If the cam is hitting the rocker… no
If the valves are loose… no
If the cam or rocker are worn… no
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #23 - 07/29/23 at 20:09:19
 
verslagen1 wrote on 07/29/23 at 19:24:43:
och wrote on 07/29/23 at 16:52:55:
I guess I'll take off the tank and check the decompression system first, it is my understanding that I can disconnect it all together and run the bike to see if the noise disappears?

If the cam is hitting the rocker… no
If the valves are loose… no
If the cam or rocker are worn… no


I meant to disconnect the decompression system and run the bike without it, to eliminate possible sources. If the noise disappears with the decomp system disconnected, no need to look further.

I understand the way it works it may be keeping my exhaust valves slightly open?
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #24 - 07/30/23 at 16:04:49
 
Try these tests.  Quick & dirty, no need to disassemble anything.  You can see from my 2nd vid that the release mechanism can make a noise similar to yours.

Free play check

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOJmXTcOiI8


Noise check, engine running

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6MKigSVNKQ0


It seemed like a good opportunity to learn something so I gave it a whirl.  Got me thinkin that I need to check this when I do my clay checks for piston-to-valve clearance.  Something I didn't consider.  There's always something lurking around the corner.

Good luck.
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verslagen1
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #25 - 07/30/23 at 18:51:54
 
Wow noisy valves
Mike you should try loosening that up a bit
You can get it so it’ll start immediately but still open the valve when needed
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #26 - 07/30/23 at 19:43:50
 
Thank you so much, I will definitely check that mechanism!
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #27 - 07/31/23 at 10:46:44
 
Hey Versy, thanks for the assessment of my rattle trap.  I'm past due for a service and will be doing one in the next day or so.  Will let you know where my valve clearance is and also my CCT extension.  While audio recordings on an iPad held 12 inches away from the cylinder head can be misleading, I agree that she's a bit noisy.  But it (the video) did a great job of showing how the compression release can make a lot of noise if it's too tight.

Why do you feel I should loosen up my release cable?  The spec is 2 to 5 mm and I'm within that spec.  It starts fine and seems to work perfectly.
What do you think I would gain by loosening the cable?  I guess it would give me a little more confidence that I have enough valve-to-piston clearance when I run a flat-top piston.
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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #28 - 07/31/23 at 11:21:25
 
I eliminated the decomp system completely.  In place of the cable to actuate the exhaust valves I used a small 2” Allen head bolt.  It’s an easy push on the bolt with my thumb to open the valves briefly upon hitting the start button.
I’ve had this setup for 5-6 years and have only needed to use the mechanism one time to start the engine when it was on the compression stroke.  Other than that one occasion it spins up and starts fairly easily every time.  Keep in mind that I have the 97mm flat top piston with greater than 10.5:1 CR, due to the larger bore and with my head having been shaved 0.015”.


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Re: What could be the source of this engine rattle
Reply #29 - 07/31/23 at 15:03:38
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 07/31/23 at 10:46:44:
Why do you feel I should loosen up my release cable?  The spec is 2 to 5 mm and I'm within that spec.  It starts fine and seems to work perfectly.
What do you think I would gain by loosening the cable?  I guess it would give me a little more confidence that I have enough valve-to-piston clearance when I run a flat-top piston.

Like most people, when I started doing this I didn’t know sh!t from shinola but I did notice that lever was just a little above the stop and when I adjusted it, it went up. Starting wasn’t as quick too. So I loosened it back up and starting went back to 2 or 3 grunts (2 revs per grunt) loosened a little more and it’s 1 grunt. But you do have to be careful as you can find yourself stuck needing a decomp release to get it started if you go to far.
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