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12 USD Carburettor (Read 421 times)
DragBikeMike
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #30 - 07/08/23 at 19:36:39
 
"With the cable fitted, removing the slide is a huge pain. Are there any tips for quick and easy needle adjustment and swaps or is this setup just a massive pita with the cap and spring setup."

"The one downside of this carb is that it is much more painful to adjust the needle settings. Messing with the spring and cap is a huge pain."

"Getting the cable anchor threaded in while holding the spring out of the way is very tedious."


I personally find the PWK fairly easy to work on, about the same as a Mikuni VM.  Once you understand how the thing goes together it goes pretty smooth.

First off, Fast650's suggestion on disconnecting at the twist grip first is a good place to start.

Next, never try to install the cable into the hook and then screw the hook into the slide.  Jeeeez, that's gotta be hard.  How did you ever do it.

Install the needle into the slide and then thread the hoouk into the slide to capture the needle.  Lightly tighten the hook.  It should look like this.
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Install_Cable_with_contraption_in_slide.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #31 - 07/08/23 at 19:39:07
 
Then pull back the spring and nylon lock ring and use a pair of surgical clamps to hold everything in place.  You have to fight the spring a bit but that's typical of any carb like this.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #32 - 07/08/23 at 19:40:24
 
Then push the cable swage into the hook and pull up so that it goes tight in the socket.  Like this.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #33 - 07/08/23 at 19:42:32
 
Then release the surgical clamp and lower the locking ring and spring on to the hook assembly.  Make sure the tab on the nylon lock ring aligns correctly with the cable slot.  Now the cable is captured.
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Lower_spring_and_nylon_lock_ring.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #34 - 07/08/23 at 19:43:04
 
Ready to rock-n-roll.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #35 - 07/08/23 at 19:44:35
 
Just a note.  I did this demo on top of my kitchen stove because there's good lighting for the photos.  I find it harder to do on top of the kitchen stove than on the bike.  On the bike, the cable isn't floppin all around.

I suspect you need a new slide needle.  Got any pics of what you did to it?
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Moarpower
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #36 - 07/08/23 at 20:54:20
 
Thanks Mike. Those surgical clamps are going to be needed. I used zip ties. What a pain.

I'll post pics of the needle when I get home. Basically, because it's a cheap part, I added a slight increase to the taper. For some reason it wouldn't allow the slide to lower all there way with the short main jets I stalled.
I reinstalled the tall jet and it seated all the way down. I have ordered a few smaller sizes in the taller jets.
I just need to decide what needles to get. I'll buy 2 to try for now.
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #37 - 07/16/23 at 03:13:21
 
Using the shorter keihin jets is not going to work with this carb needle. The needle pokes through far enough to impact the shorter jets. The taller jets have a larger hole in the threaded end. I've attached a picture of how far the needle pokes out.

I managed to get it idling well today with the 35 pilot. I used a tall, 130 or 135 main (uncertain as the number on it was worn off but  I used small drill bit to determine its between 130 and 135.

I reassembled and was quite disappointed as the really nice snappy throttle feel was gone and it was feeling very loose now. I got rid of most of the slack at the handle end but it really didn't feel like it did at first, which was quite stiff with the spring and really nice to use.  Not sure what happened. Maybe I've reassembled wrong  but I pulled the cap off again and re assembled the spring and it was still the same.

Let it warm up and then out for a ride. It's much better than the stock carb. More responsive, and noticeably more power.
It rode well all through the rev range, no bogging or surging at idle, Wot  or while cruising at part throttle. 2nd gear would get to 90kmph easily.
Only back fires were when closing the throttle and slowing down at high revs.

When idling there is one issue. Snapping the throttle open quickly would bog the bike right down to near cut off. However, doing it again soon after it would rev fine.  Opening the throttle at a speed slight slower than instant also worked fine.

Onam looking for the needle DBM recommended. So far I can find them and ship from the USA. 18aud for the needle and 35aud shipping lol. I've emailed local retailers and I'll see what they say.

The issue may also be related to float height which I'll check tomorrow.
I really would like to fix the throttle feel too. The throttle feels very loose which is very strange as it is connected directly to a spring. Maybe a kink in the cable? But it moves both way very lightly with no resistance. Annoying.
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #38 - 07/18/23 at 02:28:37
 
It's riding really well.

Much more power than stock but I can tell the needle is a little lean. I have ordered a DGK needle that will hopefully be here by Saturday.

I have attached a video of the bogging when I rapidly open the throttle.
Interestingly, I don't feel the issue when I'm riding l, even if I take off fast from a stop.

17aud well spent.

https://youtube.com/shorts/lN7ILSbcCHQ?feature=share
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #39 - 07/20/23 at 03:20:09
 
I went for a ride today running the included needle which I believe is DDJ, 135 main and 35 pilot.

This is the plug after 70km.
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #40 - 07/20/23 at 03:21:34
 
I've stepped up the pilot to 40 and will try the 138 and 140 main jets .
But j think this plug looks either hot or lean? It's hard for me to tell as I'm colour blind.
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #41 - 07/21/23 at 15:57:03
 
I finally received the DGK needle as recommended by DBM. He also recommended the EGK which is richer but it was not available from the Australian supplier of Keihin/Sudco.

VS the DDJ needle, power delivery felt less harsh and the engine sounded better. The DDJ was undoubtedly on the leaner side but it still worked.

I set the DGK at position 3 and it was quite good. I did notice after around 40 minutes of riding that I could get it to break up a little at the top end, around 3/4s to 4/5s throttle. But only at high revs.
I'll move it to position 2 and see if that helps as it felt rich.

Unfortunately, there has been no change to the quick throttle bog while idling. I am wondering if it could be my massive air-filter?
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #42 - 07/27/23 at 03:05:02
 
Hey guys.

So my journey through building this bike and messing with things has been great.
Ive got the new carb (12usd) running really well now. The DGK needle gave me rich bogging at steady high revs at positions 2 and 3. Moving it to position 1 has really minimised it. Hopefully not too lean tho. Running a 140 main and 40 pilot.

I am hoping to make sure I have an appropriate slide cutaway. Hopefully, DBM will chime in with some wisdom on how to identify this.
This is the slide I have. No marking anywhere.
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TheSneeze
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #43 - 07/27/23 at 06:48:49
 
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1625732492/60

Reply #67 shows how to identify your slide.
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Re: 12 USD Carburettor
Reply #44 - 07/27/23 at 07:58:44
 
Moarpower wrote on 07/21/23 at 15:57:03:
Unfortunately, there has been no change to the quick throttle bog while idling. I am wondering if it could be my massive air-filter?



When I installed my VM38, I had an oxygen sensor and display meter on the bike so I could see what was happening with the fuel/air mixture while I was riding.  It showed me some things that were contrary to what I believed was happening.

THROTTLE ROLL OFF - EXHAUST POPPING.   I had thought that the popping noise out the muffler was caused by the mixture going rich as a result of the air supply being closed off by the slide.  It turns out that just the opposite happens and the mixture goes so lean that the spark plug can no longer ignite the mixture and often the fuel/air mixture goes out the exhaust valve and gets ignited in the hot exhaust system (POP/BANG).  Evidently the high vacuum caused by the closed throttle can pull more air past the partially closed slide than the fuel coming out of the idle circuit can support (The slide needle has closed off the fuel flow from the needle jet)....and the mixture goes very lean.  The TEV (Throttle Enrichment Valve) on the stock carb is supposed to open and provide an extra dose of fuel when this happens......there is no similar circuit on aftermarket carbs.  This scenario is common on any motorcycle with a big piston/cylinder, a carb and a free flowing muffler.......just think how many Harleys you have heard popping and banging as they slow down.  You really should not be richening up your pilot jet or opening your mixture screw to cure this - as you will be running an overly rich mixture while idling or at low speeds.  You can reduce the severity of the noise by adjusting your idle speed a bit higher, or using your right hand to lightly open the throttle to provide more fuel flow (just open the throttle enough to reduce or stop the noise.....not so much that you are actually accelerating).

THROTTLE OPENING - Whenever you open the throttle the fuel/air mixture goes lean.  As the slide opens the vacuum in the carb throat is reduced temporarily....and it takes a short amount of time for the engine to respond and the vacuum to return to the same level that existed prior to you moving the throttle. The slower you open the throttle the lower the vacuum drop will be. This reduced vacuum results in just a bit less fuel being pulled out of the jet needle.  The faster you open the throttle the more you reduce the available vacuum beneath the slide where the jet needle is located.....and the leaner the fuel/air mixture becomes.  The stock carb has throttle butterfly and a vacuum operated slide (CV Carb.....Constant Velocity), and the goal is to keep a proper amount of vacuum and a proper fuel mixture - the carb is doing the work to keep the slide from raising too quickly. (Some carbs have an accelerator pump to provide the extra fuel needed when you open the throttle quickly). With a carb that has a manually operated slide and no accelerator pump - you are the one controlling how quickly the carb opens and the resulting fuel/air mixture.  You should get into the habit of "rolling" on the throttle - rather than just wacking it open and putting the fuel/air mixture into a very lean condition (that can result in the engine bogging until the vacuum and proper fuel/air mixture return).

STEADY CRUISE AND JETTING - When I was jetting the carb and could see the fuel/air mixture on the meter, I jetted so that the mixture was richer than 14.7;1 while the throttle was rolled open, and less than 12.5:1 during steady cruise.  

ADVICE - Don't be overly concerned about a bog if you crack the throttle open from idle.....that is really not a situation that will occur while you are riding, and it is a scenario that really exaggerates the primitive nature of a carb.
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