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Mystery rich condition? (Read 203 times)
Moarpower
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Re: Idle rich ?
Reply #15 - 06/09/23 at 19:12:52
 
I'm using the 50 pilot jet and it seems to be the right size.
Here is the new plug after 5 minutes riding with some WOT pulls up to 4th gear.

Pilot screw set on warm engine, best idle at 1.75 turns.

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Moarpower
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Re: Idle rich ?
Reply #16 - 06/09/23 at 19:13:18
 
Another angle of the plug
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Moarpower
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Re: Idle rich ?
Reply #17 - 06/09/23 at 19:23:13
 
Here is an image of a new plug yesterday, after an hour of riding through the hills.
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Moarpower
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Re: Idle rich ?
Reply #18 - 06/09/23 at 19:27:37
 
I'm going to try again with another fresh plug and lean out the slide a bit. I'll add the 4 washers and see if the issue is resolved with the stutter at the 1 to 3 per cent throttle. Maybe my 155 main jet is too much.
Perhaps there is a vacuum issue.
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Re: Mystery rich condition?
Reply #19 - 06/10/23 at 00:51:01
 
Mystery rich condition update.

80kms today of pretty varied riding from slow and easy the hectic revs throughout the hills.

I raised the needle with 4 washers, no spacer.
This picture is the plug after the ride.

I am still struggling with the flat spot/sputter at 1 to 3 percent throttle. Changes to the needle height have had zero impact on this. And it is now the only problem with how this bike runs.
But some more detail on this was discovered.
It is most prevalent when coasting down a hill in a lower gear/ at higher coasting revs. When I touch the throttle during this time, there is a stutter.
However if I go up a gear and lower the coasting revs, the issue is less apparent at that 2 percent throttle. Go up to 4th and it's gone entirely.

So it appears it's really only an issue at those higher revs.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Mystery rich condition?
Reply #20 - 06/10/23 at 03:10:12
 
You can't dial in your carb with that broken enricher.  The plunger can move in & out at will.  Nothing is keeping the plunger on its seat.  At small throttle openings, the thing will be nuts.  One moment rich, the next moment lean, sometimes normal.  A total moving target.

As a minimum, find a way to keep the plunger in so that it is fully closed, hard on the seat.  Maybe some sort of rubber band setup.

I'm afraid to ask what the TEV looks like.  Do you even have a service manual?  No wonder you are struggling.  Shocked
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Moarpower
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Re: Mystery rich condition?
Reply #21 - 06/10/23 at 03:48:46
 
Hi Mike.

The TEV and diaphragm are clean with no holes. . I've been zip tieing the plunger in place when I ride. Just cut the tie for the photo. But I'm still looking for another.
The bike is riding really well. There is just this last issue I'm chasing now. Hopefully I can find another plunger assembly but I don't think that will fix it unfortunately. It feels like the slide is just hesitant at the start.
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Moarpower
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Re: Mystery rich condition?
Reply #22 - 06/10/23 at 18:35:45
 
I have ordered a new plug ger assembly  13411-24C00-000 from webikejapan. Hopefully that helps it run a little better but I'm not sure it will solve the issue. I think I may change my needle and needle jet. Currently it has the 5C17 needle and the x-6 jet.  I will measure the main air bleed this afternoon.
The issue can only be a handful of of things. The stutter is only at the slightest touch of the throttle when the engine is under load and the revs are up high.
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Re: Mystery rich condition?
Reply #23 - 06/12/23 at 00:30:54
 
Update.

With the new plunger Installed the issue has unfortunately shown zero change as I thought it may. My pilot air jet fits a 0.6mm drill bit however, even tho these are numbered, they are cheap bits from Amazon and I'm not sure I trust them to be super accurate. I have 3 of each size and they all felt different with the shaft end in the main air bleed.

As it feels like the stutter is where the carb goes from pilot to slide, I tried raising and lowering the needle. While this changed how the bike ran , lean or rich at that throttle range, it did not alter the 1% throttle stutter. So maybe the issue the pilot circuit somewhere.

I can idle along very slowly without any problems. And the bike is certainly rideable and rides very well.

This is just the final little issue I am facing and is mainly an issue when down shifting and coasting where I first apply throttle.  
While adjusting the needle I noticed a small resistance or bump when raising the carb slide by hand. Doesn't feel 100 percent consistently smooth at the start.
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« Last Edit: 06/12/23 at 05:55:29 by Moarpower »  
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Mystery rich condition?
Reply #24 - 06/12/23 at 09:08:45
 
Did you address that broken choke?  It could be partially stuck on choke and it'll never truly idle right no matter what pilot jet you have in there and air/fuel mix screw set at.  You could be "forcing" a tune-up with a defective choke.  You are definitely running rich based on the spark plug.  The main jet will not affect idle speed at all.  The pilot jet exclusively does that.  If that choke is partially "on", it will run rich at all engine speeds.  Pilot jet does most of its job at idle and for about the first 25% of RPM range, then the slide starts kicking in for the bulk of the mixing in the mid-range (think 25-75% rpm range), then the main is for your top end and high RPM.  They all work together, but some are doing more than others at different rpms.  I'd resolve that choke if you haven't.  Otherwise, I think you're just chasing your tail.
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Moarpower
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Re: Mystery rich condition?
Reply #25 - 06/12/23 at 13:54:52
 
Hi Paul. Yes I replaced it. I mentioned it in the last post. I called it a plunger assembly as that's what it's called in the parts diagram.

It idles great now. It's just the stutter when coasting with the revs up and just barely touching the throttle that's the issue now.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Mystery rich condition?
Reply #26 - 06/13/23 at 00:12:34
 
There are two very tiny holes in the carb body that get uncovered by the throttle plate just as you crack it open.  Those holes are referred to as "transition ports".  The transition ports add fuel as the throttle plate uncovers them.  When the throttle plate is closed, the transition ports serve as additional air bleeds for the idle circuit, but as the throttle plate moves past the holes they are exposed to manifold vacuum and begin to supply fuel.  They help make the transition from the idle circuit to the main jet circuit.  That seems like the zone you are having a problem.  Make sure those holes are clean.  Remove the pilot jet and spray carb cleaner through the idle circuit.  Make sure that carb cleaner blasts out of both those holes.

These are the two transition ports.
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Transition_Ports.jpg

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Mystery rich condition?
Reply #27 - 06/13/23 at 00:14:55
 
That "small resistance or bump" you feel when you raise the slide by hand may also be a problem.  That could be hard to rectify.  Your carb is really old and the photos show it is in very poor condition.  If the slide and carb body are severely worn it might not be salvageable.

Also, there are two air bleeds in the top of the carb.  These air bleeds are for the idle circuit and the transient enrichment circuit.  On your older carburetor, one of those airbleeds is just a fixed hole, the other has a removeable jet.  

On your carb, the fixed hole (circled in green) should be 2mm, and the jet (circled in yellow) should be a #70 (about .028").  You may be able to improve the condition by playing with the pilot air bleed jet (the one circled in yellow).  A smaller jet will make the mixture richer, and a larger jet will make the mixture leaner.

These are the pilot air bleeds in question.
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Old_Style_Pilot_Air_Jets.jpg

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