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Carburetor Jetting (Read 102 times)
ThumperPaul
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Carburetor Jetting
08/03/22 at 06:08:22
 
I recently purchased a 2004 Savage with about 7,400 miles.  It's stock except for a Jardine Rumblers series slash cut slip on (currently no baffle, but considering one).  I have read the many posts on carb jetting and narrowing the needle spacer (washer, shim).  I greatly appreciate all the experience and tested fixes!  Thank you!  Here comes my specific question.

I'm in Houston, TX.  It's hot, humid, and virtually at sea level.  The bike starts and idles well and generally runs well (slight dead spot in the low/mid range especially when the bike hasn't warmed up, but noticeable otherwise too).  I am however getting some gnarly backfire on deceleration - not just a nice popping and crackling - but some kaboom style.  I have removed the plug over the air/fuel mix screw (prior owner never even tinkered with it after installing the Jardine).  It was 3 turns out as stock indicated.  With the bike hot, max idle RPM is actually at about 2.25 turns out, with no significant drop in RPM to 3.0 turns out.  Even at 3.5 turns out, still not much of a drop.

Based on my reading on the issue, here's what I'm thinking to do to tune the carb and get rid of the kaboom.  

1) Go to 1/2 spacer on the needle.  Should I go any thinner?
2) Go from 52.5 to 55 pilot jet.  I'm really questioning myself here since max RPM is achieved at 2.25 turns out.  If I go with the bigger jet, will it be too much?  Will I be able to lean it out to max RPM with #55? Will it only be 0.25 turns out or worse none (not optimized)?
3) Go from 145 to 150 main jet.  I'm thinking this is ok, but I don't want to give up mid-range snap and responsiveness.  Thoughts.

Note: I'm an older rider (60ish).  WOT is a blast, but I rarely ride that way anymore.   In my younger days, I would have been tuning all day to maximize WOT.  Nice clean, crisp acceleration with no kabooming backfire on deceleration is my main goal.  

Will thinning the needle spacer achieve most of what I'm wanting to do?  I don't mind occasionally working on a carb, but I'd rather be riding than hold my carb in my hand.

Thanks in advance!
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verslagen1
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Re: Carburetor Jetting
Reply #1 - 08/03/22 at 07:22:00
 
welcome to the group.
with that open muffler, there's nothing you'll be able to do that will stop the kaboom.
try a HD dyna muffler for good sound and minimum kaboom.
a 2.25  turns, you have the right pilot jet.
then finalize the main jet whether it's 150 or something else (150 should work for you) before messing with the spacer.
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LANCER
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Re: Carburetor Jetting
Reply #2 - 08/03/22 at 08:15:22
 
I would definitely install a baffle in the Jardine, if not replace it with a HD Dyna muffler; depending on whether you like the sound level and performance of the Jardine.  A Dyna works very well on our engine, makes good power, sounds good, and is easier to tune. Of course an exhaust change may require a jet change/s.

With a hot engine (like after riding several miles before adjusting the pilot screw) your pilot screw is at 2.25 turns out and you have max rpm, this should be the best setting for your current setup.  You can keep the current pilot jet if you wish, you are under the 3 turn rule.
If you go with a #55 pilot jet the new pilot screw setting would be around 1.25-1.5 turns out.

I assume no air leaks in your exhaust system since you did not mention it, which can cause backfiring.  To check your system, head-header and header-muffler connections, use a candle with wick blown out, watch the smoke near the connections for disturbance of the smoke.  If you have a leak it can cause backfiring.

The white plastic spacer on the needle should be shaved by 1/2 or replaced with 3 washers to address the pause your experience as the carb transitions from the pilot circuit to the midrange.   If the engine has not warmed up yet...wait until it is.

Having a #145 main jet, I would replace it with a #152.5 first.  If it’s too rich then drop to #150.
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LANCER
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Re: Carburetor Jetting
Reply #3 - 08/03/22 at 08:17:21
 
😂😂😂

Both the same
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Carburetor Jetting
Reply #4 - 08/03/22 at 08:37:46
 
Thank you Lancer.  I thought I would still be able to get to max rpm with the 55 pilot, but I wasn't sure.  On the main jet, I have been going back and forth in my mind between the 150 and 152.5.  My thought was baby steps so I don't end up going too far in the rich direction.  Verslagen1 doesn't think the Kaboom will go away.  I was thinking the spacer thickness adjustment might actually be the main thing to resolve it.  Hmmm...  Y'all seem to like the HD Dyna (and I'm sure I would too).  I don't mind the loudness and sound of the Jardine until the kaboom comes.  That said, I don't need super loud and thus I'm considering the baffle.  Also trying to keep the investment $$ small, so replacing the muffler isn't at the top of my list, but I will think about it.

I am going to check for exhaust leaks again.  I did have to replace one of the main exhaust head bolts.

Am I understanding that the spacer thinning won't help much?  I was hoping for a small miracle.  Note: If I turn up the idle and go 3.5  turns out and go ride, the backfiring does seem mitigated, but the idle shouldn't be at that high level.

Thanks again!  Smiley
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verslagen1
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Re: Carburetor Jetting
Reply #5 - 08/03/22 at 12:46:42
 
rather than thin the spacer, try 2 or 3 #4 washers in place of the spacer.
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ohiomoto
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Re: Carburetor Jetting
Reply #6 - 08/03/22 at 15:43:46
 
Let me point out that the hotter and more humid it is, the LEANER you need to go.  

With that said a good way to test the direction you want to take your jetting is to ride it early in the day when it's cooler and then in the afternoon when it's hot out.  

If you are too rich, the bike will run stronger and rev out quicker in the morning.  

Also, always make sure the bike is at full operating temperature.  That can take a good 10-15 minutes.  

My bike has a 47.5 pilot and a 147.5 main.  It runs 100 times better than the 55/155 combo the previous owner had in it.   Elevations on my commute range between 400ft and 1100 ft.  Temps are between the low-60s and 70s in the mornings and the 80s to mid-90s in the afternoons.  Humidity is high this time of year.
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Carburetor Jetting
Reply #7 - 08/04/22 at 12:49:31
 
Thank you, Verslagen and Ohiomoto.  I do intend to use #4 washers instead if fiddling with shaving down the spacer.  Ohiomoto - This confirms my thinking about not going too rich even with the rather open pipe.

So, update.  I screwed up when I tried to tighten one of the header bolts holding the pipe. Ripped the head right off.  I'm trying everything to get the darn bolt out (Blaster, Freeze Off, tapping).  I've got about 1/4 of an inch of bolt to work with.  Vise grips have shewed it up pretty good now.  I'm probably going to have to remove the whole pipe and trying drilling and tapping out.

So much for a "quick check" to see if I have an exhaust leak.  I did have a small leak and now I've got a bigger problem from trying to tighten it up.

I know what I did wrong and I'm kicking myself.  Now I just have to fight the darn bolt out.
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Re: Carburetor Jetting
Reply #8 - 08/07/22 at 05:32:05
 
The backfiring is annoying, but it discourages tailgaters!
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ThumperPaul
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Re: Carburetor Jetting
Reply #9 - 08/14/22 at 13:59:20
 
Update.  I was going to install the 150 main jet, but I was sent a 6mm head diameter jet instead of an 8mm head diameter jet.  I know the orifice is the same size, but I opted not to install the 6mm #150 for concern it may not seat properly.  So, I pulled the carb and did a basic cleaning.  It wasn't bad at all.  I made the spacer change.  I went with a single #4 nylon washer from ACE that is 0.067" thick (roughly 1/3 thinner than stock spacer 0.11 thick spacer). The bike was starting easy and running well before the change and I was 2.25 turns out on the air/fuel mix screw with the stock #52.5 primary.  After the spacer change, getting the bike running again is/was difficult.  After some time, and going between Prime and Vacuum on the carb, I was able to get it idling.  It is difficult to start.  Blue/Black smoke...  Fire in the hole.  It'sgot some crackle and backfire on opening the throttle...  It'll idle fine for a while, then bog out and die.  I was able to tinker a bit with the mix screw.  Seems to want to be at 1.5 turns out now.  I'm all over the place and frustrated.  It seems to be running rich (sound tone and smell of exhaust even though I've leaned out the mix screw).  I'm feeling lost.  This isn't my first rodeo tuning a carb, but I'm at the dumfounded stage.  Any help is appreciated.  Probably should have taken Verslagen's advice and done the #150 jet first before the changing the spacer.  At this point, I'm about ready to put the stock thicker spacer back in and and deal with the kaboom on deceleration.  Waiting for an 8mm diameter head #150 unless y'all tell me its ok to plug in the 6mm #150 jet (doesn't seem right to me).  Help and suggestions please.  Love my Savage and trying to get her good for some Fall riding.  Hot as hell in Houston still.  Thanks.
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