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Some lies are wurser (Read 133 times)
justin_o_guy2
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Some lies are wurser
05/13/22 at 08:01:14
 
I'm not gonna try to explain it all,, it's tiresome.

The support for the Official Dead Because Of Covid numbers, when it was Known that those statistics were polluted with Dead FROM Covid entries that were obviously wrong frustrated me and every honest person. Seeing that behavior defended with the claim
That is how it's always done. They will discard what should be discarded later
Was simply jaw dropping, mind numbing support for the DUMBEST way to do anything.

And WHO was Telling the American people how terrifying and likely fatal covid is?
Ohh,government agencies..

And it was BULLSHIT.


Why is that more egregious than whistleblowers tossing out numbers that are on their face incorrect?

You think about that,,
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Eegore
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #1 - 05/13/22 at 08:43:57
 

"That is how it's always done. They will discard what should be discarded later
Was simply jaw dropping, mind numbing support for the DUMBEST way to do anything.
"

 I don't know what background you have in analytics and statistics but there are reasons why all data on a topic are collected and not just the data you think you might need later.  It is normal to have large data pools that are sectioned off by categories later.  You can think it's dumb all day long, it still is common practice.

 The CDC publicly announced this, which is where the original complaints come from.  Then when they start doing exactly what they said they would do, even if its stupid, the claims are they "secretly" or "quietly" altering data.  So they are liars even though they said they would be doing this years ago.  Because somebody else lied about coding, so that means the CDC lied about coding?

 I tell you I will paint my fence red today and repaint parts of it green later.

 I repaint parts of my fence green 2 years later.

 I "secretly" painted my fence and I'm a liar?


 One thing I would like people to think about is why nobody has come forward with actual death certificates.  If there is a person falling off a cliff listed as dying from Covid, where is that documentation?  If someone who died in a high speed automobile accident is listed as dying From Covid, why isn't that information available?  If these were out there wouldn't somebody be posting them?   If hundreds of thousands existed we should have seen many by now.

 
 Besides you keep ignoring that the CDC never asked for people that died "with" Covid to be listed as dying "from" Covid.  The real words used by the CDC:


This section on the death certificate is for reporting the sequence of conditions that led directly to death. The immediate cause of death, which is the disease or condition that directly preceded death and is not necessarily the underlying cause of death (UCOD), should be reported on line A."

"The conditions that led to the immediate cause of death should be reported in a logical sequence in terms of time and etiology below it.



 No matter how many times somebody lies to you saying that tells them to list people as dying "from" Covid, it won't make it true.  Its still a lie even if its not observed as such.
 
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« Last Edit: 05/13/22 at 12:17:31 by Eegore »  
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Eegore
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #2 - 05/13/22 at 08:54:21
 
"Why is that more egregious than whistleblowers tossing out numbers that are on their face incorrect?"

 If these numbers were even remotely practical then sure there is an argument there, but 2000 soldiers per day?  How would 730,000 go unnoticed and even need a whistleblower?

 If someone says 730,000 motorcyclists died last year, and that "Big Motorcycle" is covering it up, so that means bikes should be outlawed on public streets I am pretty sure someone might bring up that 730,000 dead motorcyclists seems like a really high number.  

 Then the defense is:  Just ignore the 730,000 presented as proof and only look at the lies from Big Motorcycle.  Bikes are dangerous, look at the evidence,... but wait, also ignore the evidence because the evidence is obviously an inflated number.  
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« Last Edit: 05/13/22 at 12:20:24 by Eegore »  
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MnSpring
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #3 - 05/13/22 at 18:13:00
 
Eegore wrote on 05/13/22 at 08:43:57:
"... You can think it's dumb all day long, it still is common practice. ..."   



The subject will have a condition of the heart.
Many things are being treated, and he is alive.
Not running any marathons, but alive.
He most probably will die soon of Heart Decease, but not today.
Along comes an unknown Flu, called C-19,
his system is already compromised,
so with the extra strain, he dies.


“…This section on the death certificate is for reporting the sequence of conditions that led directly to death….”
The sequence of events is, Heart Decease, then C-19.

“…The immediate cause of death, which is the disease or condition that directly preceded death …”

The words, ‘directly preceded death’,  are rather important.
And C-19, ‘directly preceded death’.  

“… and is not necessarily the underlying cause of death (UCOD), …”
The Heart  would be the, ‘underlying cause of Death’.
The Heart was first, then C-19.

Yet, “…is not necessarily the underlying cause…”
Sure sounds like should be C-19, not the heart.

“...should be reported on line A."

The subject would have lived, had he not got the Flue/C-19.
      (Or the shot)

If a person had Heart Decease, (he was gonna die), then had a car accident.
Would death be described as Heart Decease, or Car Accident?

If a person was seeing a Therapist for …something… thoughts, (he was gonna die),  then Jumped off a building.  
Would death be described as a, ‘Mental Disorder’ or hitting the sidewalk at 168 MPH?

If someone had Cancer, (he was gonna die), then drowned in a lake.
Would death be described as Cancer, or a Drowning?

If someone had serious Kidney problems, (he was gonna die),  then was shot dead in a robbery.
Would that death be described as Kidney failure, or Murder?

The ‘controllers’ shouting the ’Sky Is Falling’,
Telling the ’talking heads’,
Telling the, ‘ “ Experts ‘ “,
to say, ‘The Sky Is Falling’,
over and over and over.
Using false numbers.
Is absolutely correct.

Yet informing people of the TRUTH,
               is wrong.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #4 - 05/13/22 at 20:30:59
 
If a person had Heart Decease, (he was gonna die), then had a car accident.
Would death be described as Heart Decease, or Car Accident?


 His "Death" or the "immediate cause" or the "UCOD"?  None of them are "car accident" as "car accident" is not a medical condition.  Covid would not be an immediate cause of death.


If a person was seeing a Therapist for …something… thoughts, (he was gonna die),  then Jumped off a building.  
Would death be described as a, ‘Mental Disorder’ or hitting the sidewalk at 168 MPH?


 Clinical depression is an acceptable UCOD, and blunt force trauma leading to internal blood loss within the cranial cavity resulting in cardiac and respiratory failure would be the immediate cause.

 Covid would not be a cause of death.


If someone had Cancer, (he was gonna die), then drowned in a lake.
Would death be described as Cancer, or a Drowning?


 "Drowning" is not a medical condition.  Its typically listed more like an asphyxial death in which the body is deprived of oxygen as a result of impairment of pulmonary oxygen exchange after partial or complete submersion in a liquid, with subsequent inhalation of some quantity of the liquid deep into the lungs.

 Cancer would not be the immediate cause of death.  Either would Covid.


If someone had serious Kidney problems, (he was gonna die),  then was shot dead in a robbery.
Would that death be described as Kidney failure, or Murder?


 Murder is not a clinical diagnosis, the resulting trauma leading to death would be the immediate cause.  Kidney disease would be UCOD.

 Want to imagine up more scenarios and grossly misconstrue how they are documented and still not address that the CDC never said to list people dying with Covid as dying from it?  None of those scenarios would ever list Covid as a cause of death and be represented in the provisional coding as such.


"The ‘controllers’ shouting the ’Sky Is Falling’,
Telling the ’talking heads’,
Telling the, ‘ “ Experts ‘ “,
to say, ‘The Sky Is Falling’,
over and over and over.
Using false numbers.
Is absolutely correct."


 No it is incorrect, to which I have repeatedly said and is continually ignored.


"Yet informing people of the TRUTH,
              is wrong.
"

 You mean the 2000 soldiers per day that are being neurologically disabled TRUTH?  Or the millions of kids that died having heart issues in 2021 TRUTH?  

 In MN using the data presented on this forum, about 113,000 kids died of heart issues in 2021.  If this TRUTH is correct, surely there would be some observations, have you observed any evidence that around 100,000 kids died from heart attacks last year?
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #5 - 05/14/22 at 10:49:41
 
Eegore wrote on 05/13/22 at 20:30:59:
"... blunt force trauma leading to internal blood loss within the cranial cavity resulting in cardiac and respiratory failure ...
... asphyxial death in which the body is deprived of oxygen as a result of impairment of pulmonary oxygen exchange after partial or complete submersion in a liquid, ..."

Absolutely nobody uses the words;
Death by; Drowning, Murder, Car Accident, etc.
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #6 - 05/14/22 at 11:12:15
 
"Absolutely nobody uses the words;
Death by; Drowning, Murder, Car Accident, etc.
"

 Many people do, but quoting documentation for CDC guidance on death certificates and specifically that, then tossing out words that are not used on those death certificates does what?

 The CDC provided guidance for provisional coding on death certificates, none of that language states to put Covid as a cause of death based exclusively on it being present in the body.  

 Spin it how you want but the language is right there, and if it were true we would see hundreds of thousands of supporting documents by now.  But instead we just see people saying the CDC is requiring it with no evidence.  
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #7 - 05/15/22 at 11:50:02
 
Common practice that is unreasonable is STEWPID.

There is NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT to Justify Including data that MUST EVENTUALLY BE discarded IF the goal is truth.

Especially when that Data gets used to cause people to be afraid and Do what they would Not do had they had ACCURATE DATA to work from.
I'm not buying the gaslighting..
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #8 - 05/15/22 at 20:18:41
 
"There is NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT to Justify Including data that MUST EVENTUALLY BE discarded IF the goal is truth."

 According to decades of accurate research with proven results in many many fields of work there is.  But like the Border Patrol, and the US Military, people that have never spent even one second of their life doing their job knows better.  If Your sources want to lie to you about what that information represents, the source of that information isn't lying to you.

 
"Especially when that Data gets used to cause people to be afraid and Do what they would Not do had they had ACCURATE DATA to work from."

 Part of the issue is your refusal to accept that the provisional coding instructions NEVER said to list people with Covid as dying from Covid.  I've posted all the language in-full from Your sources, not the CDC, and even sectioned off the specific language for you.

 You ignore it.

 By refusing to acknowledge this you can maintain the narrative that the CDC is using the coding to inflate fatalities.  What's actually happening is other people are lying to you about what the CDC said to do and then you are calling the CDC liars.  What part of the actual CDC language says to document humans with Covid as dying from Covid?

 
 Oh and also lets keep ignoring national tracking stats aren't even using the provisional coding Your sources use as evidence.  

 Your evidence is a screen-capture of a single Facebook post and mine is over 200,000 death certificates.  You keep mixing the collection method with the dispersal method and keep expecting people to be fooled by that.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #9 - 05/16/22 at 08:41:21
 
You trust what you trust. Imo,we've seen enough to make what I say believable, and what you are championing not .
We saw reports of
Dead due to covid
And one was shot ,another was a bike wreck..
Aaand, pushback finally made them revise the numbers down.
We were lied to about how many people were dying From Covid.
The numbers were inflated
Scare tactics, driving people to accept a jab,wildly oversold as safe and effective.
The destruction and failure of the jab is underreported.
If you want, I can send you a stick
You can beat the dead horse some more
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #10 - 05/16/22 at 09:34:01
 
"We saw reports of
Dead due to covid
And one was shot ,another was a bike wreck..
"

 "Reports of" but no documentation.  Fine to not have any factual evidence in this case but if it's about Russia then "reports of" aren't good enough evidence.

 Why can't anyone provide an actual document, like the actual death certificate?  Wouldn't those go a really really long way in showing the issues?  

 Even if these exist, it is NOT what the CDC said to do.  That would be exactly against the guidance provided.  But according to your logic, if somebody else lies on a death certificate, the CDC lied on the death certificate.

 How?  If somebody died from a bullet to the head the CDC guidance is to list the volatile impact trauma as primary cause of death.  Not Covid.  Covid would be a provisional code for exposure tracking.  Why do you refuse to accept that?  I laid out the exact word for word guidance from Your sources and you want the CDC to be the bad guy so much that you won't even accept your own source material if that material says Facebook posts are lying and the CDC isn't.


"We were lied to about how many people were dying From Covid.
The numbers were inflated"


 And how did the CDC provisional coding, that your own sources say they did NOT use impact that?  They didn't use ICD–10 code U07.1 in their data.  They never used it and still you claim the provisional coding is inflating numbers.  

 Mixing data collection process with data dispersal process isn't fooling anyone, but keep trying.
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« Last Edit: 05/16/22 at 13:12:48 by Eegore »  
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #11 - 05/16/22 at 14:16:39
 
Hospitals, got MORE money from the Fed Government if a flu, was diagnosed as Covid.
Hospitals got HUDGE more money from the Government, if they were put on a ventilator.  (whether they needed it or not)

This was first said by a DOCTOR, who saw, and experienced these things first hand.
And he was rewarded with THREATS, that his License could be taken away if he did not stop, TELLING, what he saw happening.

That Doctor, won the GOP Nomination a couple of nights ago for Governor in Minn.

That determination to keep saying what is really happening,
despite all the threats, is very refreshing. Hope he Wins.

The point is, the rest of the people are WAKING up.
Many were duped at first, but now they see.
They were duped by people that want to CONTROL !

You can’t send someone into a building, to go to school, work in a cubical,  
yet you can PACK an Airplane full of people sitting shoulder to shoulder for many hours at a time.

You can’t have a Wedding, Funeral, Graduation, Reunion, Worship,
yet you CAN go to a, big-box/mart-mart, and mingle with thousands of strangers.

You can’t have a motor on your boat if you go on a lake, you can’t sit with people and play sheep-head, (a card game), you can’t go to a park and play ball with the family you LIVE in the same house with, you can’t drive back and forth to a storage place, you can’t drive to the beach, stay in your car, and watch the sunset.

And literally THOUSANDS of other completely STUPID, restrictions, which were, THREATENED, with prison time.
Which the goal was to simply CONTROL !

Even many of the, ‘WOKE’, have WOKEN UP !

But alas. The few kids that did not like hunting after Bambi first came out, passed that on to their kids, then those kids, kids, passed it on to their kids, etc, etc, etc.

So the Duped people, today are few, yet there will be more and more, and more. Soon the USA will be totally Socialistic, on it way to Communism.


Unless, the likes of JFK’s, Reagan’s ,Trump’s are elected.
  Instead of ’Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb PUPPETS.’

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #12 - 05/16/22 at 14:23:29
 
Duude,, fukkin give it UP.
The Obvious is seen by the few who will not be brainwashed. I am among those people.
I'm NEVER going to agree with your bullshit. Get over it.
I've been Watching the world since Kennedy was murdered. I WATCHED while Catholic priests were punished for diddling boys by being Forced to move to a new parish. The stories were IN THE FUKKIN PAPER,but apparently no cops were reading those articles, because nobody got arrested. I'm well aware of the lies and the liars. I'm CORRECT about the jab,and YOU can go beat the horse,, because YOU will never sway me. I have Decades of being Correct more often than anyone I've known. Duude,, STFU,go, do whatever,, but STOP trying to pretend I'm some frikkin dumbshit.
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #13 - 05/16/22 at 17:56:50
 
"Duude,, fukkin give it UP.
The Obvious is seen by the few who will not be brainwashed. I am among those people.
I'm NEVER going to agree with your bullshit. Get over it.
I've been Watching the world since Kennedy was murdered. I WATCHED while Catholic priests were punished for diddling boys by being Forced to move to a new parish. The stories were IN THE FUKKIN PAPER,but apparently no cops were reading those articles, because nobody got arrested. I'm well aware of the lies and the liars. I'm CORRECT about the jab,and YOU can go beat the horse,, because YOU will never sway me. I have Decades of being Correct more often than anyone I've known. Duude,, STFU,go, do whatever,, but STOP trying to pretend I'm some frikkin dumbshit.
"


 So since Catholic priests got away with molestation the CDC must lie about a collection method?  Those are totally different things.  Your sources, that you won't read, said they did not use ICD–10 code U07.1 in their data.  But you sit here saying that the CDC uses U07.1 to inflate numbers because the headline of an article was talking about another method.  Numbers are inflated, I agreed with you multiple times, but since I think somebody else lied specifically about U07.1 you keep treating it like I said the CDC never lies.

 You say the CDC lied when somebody else lied about using that collection method as a dispersal method.  Your evidence that the CDC is lying about a collection method is watching the world?  My evidence is Your own article's linked references.  The CDC didn't lie about the collection method, the Facebook post did.



"I'm CORRECT about the jab,and YOU can go beat the horse,, because YOU will never sway me."

 I've never tried to "sway" you on anything.  You won't acknowledge Billions of people received the jab and are alive.  There's nothing to "sway" there, it's just you ignoring that.  You ignore me when I ask if you observed over 300,000 dead kids, or any evidence of it, in TX.  There's nothing to "sway" there, you are just ignoring the question.


 What part of U07.1 says to provisionally code bullet wounds as Covid?

 You historically ignore that question and then complain about something else instead of just being an adult and answering the question.  I see nothing in U07.1 that tells people to code Covid as PCD, how are you coming to that conclusion?


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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Some lies are wurser
Reply #14 - 05/17/22 at 03:19:02
 
Believe what you want
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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