SuzukiSavage.com - Clutch release arm suddenly no give

ohiomoto

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Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give
Reply #15 - 10/26/21 at 15:24:58

The clutch wouldn't fully engage or take up the cable "slack" sometimes. Basically the engagement arm wasn't going down when I released the clutch. I also found that it would fully engage it I pushed the lever out with my fingers. Like it had a grooved basket but I wouldn't expect to see that on a sub 30 hp street bike.

I found the basket was loose and it actually still has a bit of play after I tightened it up. I'll have to get it apart and check the bearing and washers sometime.

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Hiko Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 250 Tauranga New Zealand Gender:	Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give Reply #16 - 10/26/21 at 17:15:43 TheSneeze wrote on 10/26/21 at 13:43:56: You really can't pay for better help than you find on this forum! You guys are awesome! I was just thinking the same thing!!
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lulublacksheep

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Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give
Reply #17 - 10/26/21 at 17:35:10

Wow!!! You guys do rock!! I just got home from work and I’m going over all your suggestions. I’ll get in the shop tomorrow and post pics and go over these steps.
Also I’m not sure if I made this clear with my first post… the clutch has been running fine. Until it wasn’t. I know the previous owner and I’m certain he never went in the crank case. I say he bobbed it out… all he did was remove the fenders, air box and muffler. And changed the tail light. I doubt he did anything other than that and oil changes.

But I’ll get my eyes back on it tomorrow.

Thanks again!!!

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lulublacksheep YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9	Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give Reply #18 - 10/27/21 at 14:42:22 Ok folks... I hope this is ok. I made a video showing the crescent wrench test, plus the things that are confusing me. Heres a link... https://youtu.be/gL_PBlI8ZFc I'll also just add photos. I measured the pressure plate travel and it's 4mm.
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lulublacksheep YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9	Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give Reply #19 - 10/27/21 at 14:47:22
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lulublacksheep YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9	Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give Reply #20 - 10/27/21 at 14:50:34 Here's the crescent on the arm. (also in action in the video) Maybe I'm just totally confused about the pressure plate tension... and the mechanics. But I'm stumped.
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lulublacksheep

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Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give
Reply #21 - 10/27/21 at 15:02:58

This is how far extended the pressure plate is at 10 ft lbs. This is what has me stumped. I've tightened it enough to engage the clutch and lock the basket, while still being able to push the pressure plate in with the amount of force i would imagine the spring and release cam will have, and disengage the clutch basket. But it being out this far, I'm not even able to put the case back on. I have to tighten it darn near all the way to be able to get the case back on, and the arm still has no play.

This was going on before I ever took the case off, and I suspect it may be what broke my clutch cable. But it ran fine for months. Until it didn't.

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verslagen1

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Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give
Reply #22 - 10/27/21 at 16:09:02

OK, let's try and unconfuse you. Smiley

Clutch failure can have many causes. Cheapest fix is to readjust. Start with the cable, then the throw out rod.

The clutch pack screws have to be tightened all the way for the clutch to operate.

If the throw out rod is too long it'll stick out of the pack more than 13mm. When you tighten the cover, it pushes the pack in.
And will be too short at 12mm, I regrind them to 12.5mm sticking out of the pack.
The more it sticks out, the better mechanical advantage you'll have too.

When you pull the clutch lever, the lever is pulled up and the pack is pushed in.

The 1st time I re-assembled my clutch it was jammed and wouldn't operate. Perhaps the washers weren't properly aligned. All I did was take it off the bike and shift the plates side to side, then reinstalled it.

BTW, while you're there, measure the cam chain adjuster, the amount that the plunger sticks out shouldn't be more than 19mm. More than that and it starts damaging the housing the plunger is in.

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lulublacksheep

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Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give
Reply #23 - 10/27/21 at 16:37:36

“The clutch pack screws have to be tightened all the way for the clutch to operate.”

So what you’re saying is I need to tighten the spring bolts all the way in? Correct?

“If the throw out rod is too long it'll stick out of the pack more than 13mm. When you tighten the cover, it pushes the pack in.
And will be too short at 12mm, I regrind them to 12.5mm sticking out of the pack.
The more it sticks out, the better mechanical advantage you'll have too.”

Is the throw out rod the pushrod? By sticking out of the pack, do you mean measure how far it sticks out of the push piece?

When you pull the clutch lever, the lever is pulled up and the pack is pushed in.

“BTW, while you're there, measure the cam chain adjuster, the amount that the plunger sticks out shouldn't be more than 19mm. More than that and it starts damaging the housing the plunger is in.”

I’ll tighten the bolts all the way in and try it.
I’ll measure the cam chain adjuster also.

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verslagen1

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Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give
Reply #24 - 10/27/21 at 18:06:49

lulublacksheep wrote on 10/27/21 at 16:37:36:

“The clutch pack screws have to be tightened all the way for the clutch to operate.”

So what you’re saying is I need to tighten the spring bolts all the way in? Correct?

yes
Quote:

“If the throw out rod is too long it'll stick out of the pack more than 13mm. When you tighten the cover, it pushes the pack in.
And will be too short at 12mm, I regrind them to 12.5mm sticking out of the pack.
The more it sticks out, the better mechanical advantage you'll have too.”

Is the throw out rod the pushrod? By sticking out of the pack, do you mean measure how far it sticks out of the push piece?

yes
Quote:

When you pull the clutch lever, the lever is pulled up and the pack is pushed in.

“BTW, while you're there, measure the cam chain adjuster, the amount that the plunger sticks out shouldn't be more than 19mm. More than that and it starts damaging the housing the plunger is in.”

I’ll tighten the bolts all the way in and try it.
I’ll measure the cam chain adjuster also.

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DragBikeMike

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Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give
Reply #25 - 10/27/21 at 21:47:28

Good job Lulu. Thanks for the pictures. You are right, your release plate is waaaaaaaaaaay too far out. You have tightened the "spring bolts" to 10 ft-lbs. That's one-half ft-lb more than the spec. Why hasn't your release plate gone in all the way to the spring posts on the pressure disk???

I find it's best to tighten those bolts gradually, in a criss-cross pattern, about 1/2 turn at a time. That draws the release plate in evenly. Once it is all the way in, and hard against the spring posts on the pressure disk, you can use the torque wrench to do the final tightening of each bolt.

There is an o-ring on the push piece. That o-ring is a very tight fit into the transmission input shaft. It can be very difficult to get that o-ring started into the transmission input shaft.

This is the o-ring I am referring to. See it on the end of the push piece.

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DragBikeMike Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 4406 Honolulu	Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give Reply #26 - 10/27/21 at 21:50:17 If that o-ring is damaged, or swollen, or has the wrong cross section, it will bind in the input shaft. If the bore in the input shaft is damaged or gouged, it will cause the o-ring to bind. This is the bore I am referring to. It's in the center of the transmission input shaft.
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DragBikeMike

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Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give
Reply #27 - 10/27/21 at 21:58:40

So inspect the o-ring and the input shaft. Take a picture of the o-ring and post it so we can see what it looks like.

That release plate has to go ALL THE WAY IN until it bottoms out on the spring posts on the pressure disk.

The spring post controls the installed height of the spring. So, the aluminum release plate must contact the aluminum spring post. Eight to nine ft-lbs of torque should be enough force to compress the springs and bring the release plate all the way to the spring post. If that's not happening, then I suspect your push piece is bound up in the trans input shaft. BTW, the torque spec is 8 to 9.5 ft-lbs.

This is the spring post I am referring to.

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DragBikeMike

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Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give
Reply #28 - 10/27/21 at 22:22:29

I can see from your pictures that you have sufficient pressure disk travel, so your problem is most likely associated with the release plate/push piece binding.

You can remove the o-ring to trouble shoot the problem, but you can't leave the o-ring out. If you carefully remove the o-ring you can see if you can assemble the release plate and check to see if you can get the clutch adjusted and operating properly. This is just to troubleshoot. The o-ring is necessary for proper oil system operation. Don't leave it out.

Once you get the release plate installed correctly (i.e. all the way in), you can install the clutch cover and check to see where your clutch lever is. Use the crescent wrench trick. I wouldn't mess with that pushrod unless the lever does not fall within the marks on the case.

If the lever falls between the marks on the case, then hook up the cable and see if you can operate the clutch with the lever on the handlebars. If that works OK, then you know the source of your problem. Get a new o-ring and/or polish up and burrs, gouges etc.

Versy is spot on with his recommendation about the cam chain tensioner. The picture below shows how to measure the extension. If your tensioner exceeds whatever Versy specified, contact him for the fix. He's got it goin on with the tensioners.

Good luck, Mike

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lulublacksheep YaBB Newbies Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9	Re: Clutch release arm suddenly no give Reply #29 - 10/28/21 at 14:34:11 Ok I got the release plate all the way in with no problems. O ring is brand new. I just replaced it. The camshaft chain tensioner looks like it’s just a little past 19mm. So that needs to be adjusted huh?
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