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Murder during a riot (Read 230 times)
MnSpring
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Re: Murder during a riot
Reply #30 - 08/29/21 at 07:50:02
 
Quote:
Eegore wrote on 08/28/21 at 16:03:09:
" ... I think maybe he was following bad policy...
... I think it's bad policy... "



Which policy do you think is 'bad' ?
The policy of upholstering his gun ?
The policy of carrying it ?
The policy of the speed he walked/ran to the door ?
The policy of aiming the gun ?

Or the policy of shooting and killing a person,
who showed no threat/physical harm,
  to him or those around him ?






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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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MnSpring
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Re: Murder during a riot
Reply #31 - 08/29/21 at 08:07:49
 
Quote:
Eegore wrote on 08/28/21 at 16:03:09:
 " ...   I never said it "proved" anything ... "


Your right. (not in exact words)

Just that you saying:

Quote:
Eegore wrote on 08/28/21 at 14:50:59:
" ... So how do I know?  I've been there and have had to sit through PowerPoint after PowerPoint of legalese in regards to use of force by Federal Agencies. ... "


Just that the above statement, 'implied'.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: Murder during a riot
Reply #32 - 08/29/21 at 19:14:23
 
Which policy do you think is 'bad' ?
The policy of upholstering his gun ?

No.

The policy of carrying it ?
No.  I think police should carry.

The policy of the speed he walked/ran to the door ?
No.  This is most likely not in policy.

The policy of aiming the gun ?
No.

Or the policy of shooting and killing a person,
who showed no threat/physical harm,
 to him or those around him ?


 Yes.  I said that already multiple times.

 But since I am not "lock-step" complaining about it, but debate the obvious inaccuracies of certain interpretations by those using zero evidence it can only mean I disagree with everything and not only the part I said I think is inaccurate and only that part with the exclusion of all other parts.

 As I said - because I wonder if a specific order was given people here want to act like I said the action was appropriate - even though 163 days prior I stated clearly I think there is poor implementation of policy that can lead to these events.  

 Hypersensitivity to any comment outside of absolute agreement leads to nonsense like this.
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Eegore
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Re: Murder during a riot
Reply #33 - 08/29/21 at 19:18:11
 

Your right. (not in exact words)

Just that you saying:

Quote:
Eegore wrote on Yesterday at 14:50:59:
" ... So how do I know?  I've been there and have had to sit through PowerPoint after PowerPoint of legalese in regards to use of force by Federal Agencies. ... "


Just that the above statement, 'implied'.



 If I ask you how do you know gun safe law for authorized gun dealers was introduced in MN and you tell me it is because you contributed to the  implementation of that law - is that "proof?"  No.

 I would not think you implied "proof" I would think you are answering my question.  My question that did not ask for "proof".
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WebsterMark
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Re: Murder during a riot
Reply #34 - 08/30/21 at 09:22:18
 
Byrd: “I could not fully see her hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.”

So he fired?

Shouldn’t the Secret Servcie Officers on the line outside The White House that night when protestors were pushing at the fence have just opened up on them all because they “could not fully see their hands or what was in the backpack or what the intentions are.” ?
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MnSpring
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Re: Murder during a riot
Reply #35 - 08/30/21 at 09:27:23
 
Perhaps if your numerous, arguments/posts/questions, didn’t sound a whole lot like,
       Defending, this person’s actions.
Following posts would be in a different tone.

Eegore wrote on 08/26/21 at 05:52:07:
... would you, as in anyone besides me, jump through the window of a doorway that is barricaded ...

Eegore wrote on 08/26/21 at 19:01:14:
...   The gun was certainly drawn and pointed prior to the shooting, as the person who filmed one angle states he saw the weapon and attempted to warn her.  That much is clear.  ...
... As for the advancement this is a common tactic to make sure the round impacts it's intended target. ...
 ...  I still think if I crawl through a window that had to be smashed in I assume a degree of risk....

Eegore wrote on 08/26/21 at 19:42:11:
 ...  Maybe they were told to hold that line ...

Eegore wrote on 08/28/21 at 12:32:00:
... there is the possibility that a lawful order be given that nobody be allowed to pass a certain barrier.  ...

Eegore wrote on 08/28/21 at 14:50:59:
I do not know for instance if they were told to not let anyone through that door under line of defense. …  

Eegore wrote on 08/28/21 at 18:22:42:
 ...   If Babbitt was a guy crawling through that window with a bomb strapped to his chest and a pistol in his hand this would be considered a textbook shot ...


Here are some questions concerning your involvement with the:

Eegore wrote on 08/28/21 at 14:01:52:
... I posted about this very subject, 163 days before Ashley Babbitt was killed.  I stated I work with Federal agencies, and in this specific situation I am evaluating the ethics of an exercise designed around Federal Police response to large scale protests.  http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1595954676/0


Did you read/hear/see a copy of a Capital/Federal police ‘policy’, that stated, perimeters for the order of a,
‘ Hold The Line ‘ policy ?

Did you give your impute on, keep/remove/modify a
‘ Hold The Line ‘ policy ?

Did you recommend a, removal, (if one existed) or a keep the same/increase,
of the, ‘ Hold The Line ‘ Policy ?

[i]NOTE: These are questions only, they are not a statement of a policy.


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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: Murder during a riot
Reply #36 - 08/30/21 at 10:29:57
 
Perhaps if your numerous, arguments/posts/questions, didn’t sound a whole lot like,
      Defending, this person’s actions.
Following posts would be in a different tone.


 Asking if you would jump through a window with guns pointing at you is not saying the action is correct.  You may not hear that but what my words say is that a human that jumps through a window with guns pointing at them runs a higher risk of being shot than one's who don't.

 Stating that a gun was drawn prior to her entry in a window is fact.  When people say guns were not visible they are wrong, multiple guns were visible, even from her line of sight.

 You might think that means I am saying the action was correct - but what my words say is that multiple guns were visible prior to her being shot.  My evidence is two videos but if people watch them they can't go around saying "probably" this and "probably" that.


 When I say maybe they were told to hold the line I do not mean that the action was correct.  You may hear that, but my actual words say that a possibility exists that they were instructed to do this.  People can say this is not true and ask for "proof" even though they offer zero "proof" themselves and won't even watch the videos.


 When I say if Babbitt was a guy crawling through that window with a bomb strapped to his chest, I do not mean to say I think the action is correct.  You may hear that but my words indicate otherwise.  I mean that the mechanical actions that Oldnslow questions without evidence, while refusing to look at them himself, are from a technical aspect a textbook action.  


"Did you read/hear/see a copy of a Capital/Federal police ‘policy’, that stated, perimeters for the order of a,
‘ Hold The Line ‘ policy ?


 Yes.


Did you give your impute on, keep/remove/modify a
‘ Hold The Line ‘ policy ?


 No.


Did you recommend a, removal, (if one existed) or a keep the same/increase,
of the, ‘ Hold The Line ‘ Policy ?"


 No.
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