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Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm (Read 482 times)
Dave
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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #30 - 11/28/20 at 03:46:28
 
The thing you are calling ab "air cut off valve" is actually called the TEV (Throttle Enrichment Valve).

The purpose of this valve is to provide more fuel flow when the throttle is closed while decelerating or as you are accelerating and shifting gears and a high vacuum is created - the valve is supposed to reduce the lean condition that causes the popping/banging exhaust noise in the muffler (backfiring).

It there are holes in the diaphragm it could allow fuel to enter the carb and create an overly rich condition.

The part is available from Suzuki and is pretty darn expensive.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-GV1200-GV700-VS1400-VS800-LS650-Carburetor-Di...

There are aftermarket ones that are half the cost.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Suzuki-LS650-Savage-Boulevard-S40-K-L-Carburetor-Air...

How many turns out is you idle fuel mixture screw?  The photo you posted shows the screw slot nearly flush with the carb body - it should be recessed far into the hole....as there used to be a brass plug blocking the access.  The screw should never be turned out more than 3 full turns, as the tapered needle is no longer functioning if you have to turn it out that far.  If you need to go more than 3 turns out to get a good smooth idle - you either need a larger pilot jet or you have a problem elsewhere in your carb.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #31 - 11/28/20 at 10:40:21
 
Niceast you seem to be having fun.  Keep at it and you will prevail.

I know it's hard to follow all the advice you receive here on the forum, but you really should do your best.  One suggestion that has been offered over & over is to ditch those aftermarket components.

On 11/15 you posted: “the aftermarket jets are same a stock just different numbers.”

On 11/27 you posted:  ” Took the stock main jet and drilled out to 3/64” response was much better more smooth.”

The OEM Mikuni main jets come in .025 millimeter increments.  That would be .00098”.  The stock main jet is a #145.  That’s 1.45mm, or .057”.  You drilled your main jet with a 3/64” drill (.047”), which I assume means that it started out somewhat smaller than .047”.  In comparison, a #120 Mikuni main jet is 1.2 mm or .047”.  As you can see (if you actually removed metal when you drilled out your jet) the jet had to have been smaller that .047”.  That means it was smaller than a #120 Mikuni main jet.  A #120 Mikuni main jet is ten-sizes smaller than a #145 (120, 122.5, 125, 127.5, 130, 132.5, 135, 137.5, 140, 142.5, 145).  Drilling main jets doesn’t work well.  They are precise orifices, they come in .00098” increments, and the entry and exit tapers are critical to the flow through the jet.  Get the correct Mikuni jets, not aftermarket junk.  Genuine Mikuni jets only.

On 11/16 I posted a picture of the OEM needle jet and suggested you check the emulsion holes for obstructions.  Did you verify that you have the correct stainless-steel needle jet?  Are the small emulsion holes clean?

On 11/26 you posted a picture that implies your slide does not open completely.  Go back and look at the picture I posted on 11/16.  It shows side by side pictures of slides.  The one on the left looks like yours.  It’s not opening all the way.  The one on the right shows how it should be.  Which one do you have?

The holes you show in your TEV diaphragm are certainly a concern.  They will result in a manifold vacuum leak.  Air will be pulled from the pilot air jets (in the dome of the carburetor) through the diaphragm, and then into the vacuum port.  It will cause poor idle and you will have to compensate by backing out your mixture screw and/or installing an oversize pilot jet.  Note Dave's prior comment about how far your mixture screw is turned out.  You must replace the diaphragm.  

On 11/27 you posted:   “I forgot to mention I am running a nufoam air filter.”

Foam pod filters are a known problem.  Is your “nufoam” filter a pod filter or is it a direct replacement for the stock filter element?  A pod filter clamps to the carburetor, a direct replacement filter gets installed in the stock airbox.

Pod filters can cover up the air vent for the carburetor dome.  If that vent gets covered up or partially obstructed, it will prevent the slide from lifting properly.  This is the vent opening in question.
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niceast
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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #32 - 12/03/20 at 18:26:51
 
Quick update,
thanks for all the replies, I am having fun restoring the bike to its former glory.

Gutted the oem air filter using the bracket to install the Nufoam.

Idle screw is aftermarket, it’s further out for easier adjustment. At 1.25 turns out

Yes the slide does function all the way up and down. I just took a quick picture.

Emulsion are clear


Tev diaphragm is working. Idle is normal. Also have replacement as needed.

Thank you for the detail description of the jets sizes. Knowing my choices as either oem replacement or diy. I accept and choose to DIY by drilling 1/16” or 0.0625”. The bike now runs better. If stock #145 is 1.45mm in theory this would be a #158.75 main jet.


Problem solved
Original topic:
No acceleration passed 4,000 rpm
Bike would sputter +/- 200 rpm, could not increase speed pass 55mph

Solution
Drilled main jet to 1/16”
Bike feels like its running normal.
Currently the air temperature are 50 Fahrenheit and air is super dense.
Not running stock air filter.
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« Last Edit: 01/15/21 at 17:11:12 by niceast »  
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ohiomoto
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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #33 - 12/03/20 at 19:09:39
 
Please don't take this as being negative, but something isn't right.  

Needing a main jet that large to get over 60 mph???  It just doesn't add up. (If I had to guess it would be because the needle isn't OE and is probably also much larger than stock.)

For reference my bike will do an easy 75-80mph (but not much after that) on a 147.5 main.  Or it may be a 145 main?  I don't remember exactly anymore, but I know I'm running a little leaner than most on here.  It had a 155 main in there when I bought it and it was a turd.  

My point is that you should be able to get 90-95% full performance from stock jetting.  If you can't do that then you only have a solution for the symptom and not the problem.  

But if you are happy with what you have now, then more power to you!  Smiley
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niceast
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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #34 - 12/16/20 at 19:14:43
 
Final summary:
Problem:
Unable to accelerate/cruise pass 60mph
North America
Below 1,000 feet sea level

Symptoms:
Rpm not passing 4000rpm
Rode like it was running out of gas at 4000rpm/60mph (pushes forward>stops acceleration> falls back> loop)

Test conducted:
Clean carburetor (no difference)
Check slide function (no difference)
Check adjustable needle height (no difference)
New petrol (no difference)

Actions:
Drilled main jet 1/16”

Result:
All functions as normal


My background:
Mechanical engineering masters and undergraduate.

Justification:
Motorcycle was designed before 1986. A time before FEA and advance computer calculations. No where near today’s capabilities. Precision of motorcycle efficiency were hand calculated. So I can sleep easy, drilling the main jet orifices. If you wish to challenge please present 4-5 page research paper on a study of fluid dynamics and aerodynamics + 10 scholarly references/journals/articles that predate 1986. Must show your own work and using FEA software for your original examples. Late work not accepted.


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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #35 - 12/16/20 at 21:24:53
 
I had an 81 Honda CB650 that ran at low speeds fine, but at highway speed was too rich and would foul plugs. I rebuilt carburetors several times, went through many electrical possibilities, but found the only thing that corrected the problem was to prop the airbox cover open. It worked fine that way, so that's how I rode it.
I do not believe I corrected an airbox issue the 80's Japanese engineers got wrong. I compensated for a problem I was not able to find.

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ohiomoto
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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #36 - 12/17/20 at 17:05:29
 
niceast wrote on 12/16/20 at 19:14:43:
My background:
Mechanical engineering masters and undergraduate.

Justification:
Motorcycle was designed before 1986. A time before FEA and advance computer calculations. No where near today’s capabilities. Precision of motorcycle efficiency were hand calculated. So I can sleep easy, drilling the main jet orifices. If you wish to challenge please present 4-5 page research paper on a study of fluid dynamics and aerodynamics + 10 scholarly references/journals/articles that predate 1986. Must show your own work and using FEA software for your original examples. Late work not accepted.



---------------------

Well...you just went from needing help to an expert in a hurry (and you're still wrong Grin).  But it's working for you so carry on.   Smiley

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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #37 - 12/17/20 at 17:34:28
 
niceast wrote on 12/16/20 at 19:14:43:
My background:
Mechanical engineering masters and undergraduate.

Justification:
Motorcycle was designed before 1986. A time before FEA and advance computer calculations. No where near today’s capabilities. Precision of motorcycle efficiency were hand calculated. So I can sleep easy, drilling the main jet orifices. If you wish to challenge please present 4-5 page research paper on a study of fluid dynamics and aerodynamics + 10 scholarly references/journals/articles that predate 1986. Must show your own work and using FEA software for your original examples. Late work not accepted.



Great. Another abrasive know it all expert.
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ohiomoto
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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #38 - 12/17/20 at 17:56:55
 
Nah, I see some sarcasm.  It's all good.  No need to get angry.   Smiley
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niceast
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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #39 - 12/24/20 at 17:57:40
 
Gary_in_NJ wrote on 12/17/20 at 17:34:28:
niceast wrote on 12/16/20 at 19:14:43:
My background:
Mechanical engineering masters and undergraduate.

Justification:
Motorcycle was designed before 1986. A time before FEA and advance computer calculations. No where near today’s capabilities. Precision of motorcycle efficiency were hand calculated. So I can sleep easy, drilling the main jet orifices. If you wish to challenge please present 4-5 page research paper on a study of fluid dynamics and aerodynamics + 10 scholarly references/journals/articles that predate 1986. Must show your own work and using FEA software for your original examples. Late work not accepted.



Great. Another abrasive know it all expert.


your right Gary.
I need to be more humble.
I know nothing.


closed thread, please
no addition progress regarding topic is being discuss, other than disagreed opinions of wether to diy-fix or buy-off-shelf parts.

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Re: Acceleration breaks up at 4,000 rpm
Reply #40 - 01/02/21 at 17:28:12
 
Could not get over 53 mph until I cleaned this   " alt="" title="" border="0" />
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