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Help!!! (Read 134 times)
DragBikeMike
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Help!!!
03/28/20 at 22:50:19
 
I’m hoping that some of you are electricians, or have lots of experience with motors.  My lathe motor just died.  I was in the middle of a Savage project when the lathe motor would not start.  At first, I got it to run by spinning the chuck and then flipping the switch.  After a while, that wouldn’t work.  One interesting thing that it does is when I turn the switch “off” it will momentarily rotate about ¼ turn.

For a long time now, the switch has been getting hot.  I know I should have investigated that, but you know how it is.  If I was doing a job that took more than a few minutes, the switch would get hot.  Hot enough that I started paying attention to it and would shut down periodically for it to cool off.

I took a picture of the data plate.

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DragBikeMike
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #1 - 03/28/20 at 22:51:02
 
When I went to remove the motor one of the wires would not pull out of the connector block.  I had to cut the wire.  When I could see it better the connector block was melted to the wire.  Could a loose connection here cause the switch upstream to overheat too?  The wires between the terminal block and switch are about 24” long.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #2 - 03/28/20 at 22:51:48
 
The capacitors look OK but I have no idea how to check them.  Anyone know how to do that?
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #3 - 03/28/20 at 22:52:50
 
When I got the end bell off, I could see that the starting contacts were burned.  Is it OK to clean the contacts up with a points file or abrasive material?  If these contacts aren’t conducting well, will it cause the switch to run hot or the terminal block to overheat?
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #4 - 03/28/20 at 22:53:30
 
Another view of the contacts.  Do you think I can salvage this?
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #5 - 03/28/20 at 22:54:12
 
The centrifugal throw-out mechanism that operates the starting contacts tends to hang up occasionally.  It feels a bit like residual magnetism holding it in the running position.  It only does it every now & then, and lasts about 30 seconds, maybe one-minute.  Its not dirty or sticky.  The action seems smooth.  It just seems to hang up a bit.  Any ideas on this?
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #6 - 03/28/20 at 22:54:47
 
I would be really appreciate any help I can get on this problem.

Best regards, Mike
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #7 - 03/29/20 at 08:00:23
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 03/28/20 at 22:54:12:
The centrifugal throw-out mechanism that operates the starting contacts tends to hang up occasionally.  It feels a bit like residual magnetism holding it in the running position.  It only does it every now & then, and lasts about 30 seconds, maybe one-minute.  Its not dirty or sticky.  The action seems smooth.  It just seems to hang up a bit.  Any ideas on this?


I think that is the culprit. It sounds like the start windings are remaining energized after the motor is up to speed, which will make the motor run very hot and eventually burn up the windings.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #8 - 03/29/20 at 08:08:04
 
Cleaned up my starter contacts with a diamond fingernail file.
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Hiko
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #9 - 03/29/20 at 23:50:13
 
This from my Electrician Son

I am certainly not a cap start motor expert but I am an electrician and know how they work.

The cap shifts the phase of a start winding to give the motor direction and a rotating field to actually start moving rather than a solenoid.

If the cap is blown or not connecting via the switch then the motor would just sit there and hum[like a solenoid ;]

The switch disconnects the  cap and start winding when the motor is spinning fast enough to throw the centrifugal switch

Test the resistance of your start winding as if that is gone then the motor will need to be rewound The heat melts the insulation and that is what destroys them

You could disconnect the switch and the cap,the motor should still run if you give it a start flick Be aware it will run in either direction if you start it this way

If this test works then it is definitely your start switch or start winding
Yes you can file and clean your contacts but better to replace when you can as they may not last too long

Unfortunately I would say the start switch contacts became welded and
now cooked the start winding . If you can hand start it it should run all day and not get hot

Good luck!
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #10 - 03/29/20 at 23:58:21
 
Thanks guys (and Hiko please thank your son also).  I fixed the terminal block, cleaned the burned contacts, lubricated the centrifugal switch actuator.  Still didn't work.  Then I zeroed in on the switch.  That screwy rotation when I cycled the switch to "off" made me focus on the switch.  It's fried.  A quick check with an ohmmeter verified it's not making good contact and you can see the terminal lug is raised up from melted plastic.  Have to round up a new switch.  Melted connections in three places???  Could they all be related?

BTW, I checked amperage with the motor running (took a lot of juggling to get it to lite off).  The black wire pulled 11.2 amps, but the white wire was less at 10.6 amps.  Shouldn't both wires have the same current flowing?  
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #11 - 03/30/20 at 05:24:40
 
DragBikeMike wrote on 03/28/20 at 22:51:48:
The capacitors look OK but I have no idea how to check them.  Anyone know how to do that?

Best thing to do with capacitors is to replace them.
Just make sure the voltage rating is the same or  higher.
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #12 - 03/30/20 at 07:02:10
 
Like Matchless said, probably just replace the capacitor. You cant check those big ones with a normal meter you have to have a special one. Probably any A/C repair shops in the area could check it.  But its likely just 6 to 12 bucks to replace anyways and more often than not they are the culprit when it just wont start up. Sometimes they look messed up, but other times they look perfectly normal but are bad.

Loose connections can also lead to heat, which might be why the connectors got hot enough to melt.  Otherwise a large amperage draw was the culprit, but I imagine you would have noticed the lathe laboring.

Those contactors dont look that trashed to me. Just clean gently and they should be ok.

But like you saw that switch has  got to be replaced too.  Its probably not easy to get replacement parts for a Chinese lathe either, just gotta get what you can. If you need any translation I actually speak Chinese. ha ha.

Bummer, its always one thing after the other isnt it.  And way to often around tax return time. Angry
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #13 - 03/30/20 at 07:35:02
 
Matchless G11 wrote on 03/30/20 at 05:24:40:
DragBikeMike wrote on 03/28/20 at 22:51:48:
The capacitors look OK but I have no idea how to check them.  Anyone know how to do that?

Best thing to do with capacitors is to replace them.
Just make sure the voltage rating is the same or  higher.


All so  the value might be difficult to find, 300uF. Most caps are 330uF
I don't think that will be a problem. (May be some one with more experience with caps on motors can tell us.)  My cap replacement knowledge comes form fixing vintage shortwave/ ham receivers.  
It looks like the tolerance is 50% so might not be a problem.
But I would not go much higher then 330uF for one might have problems with current inrush.

Dragbike mike I might have a switch like that. You live near by in Jersey?
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Help!!!
Reply #14 - 03/30/20 at 08:39:15
 
Theres a motor shop in Longview,, They can fix stuff like that.. and give an estimate first. If its gonna be almost the cost of new,, well,,
You might be ahead to Hire it fixed,, You might throw a few hours and dollars at it and hoope first..
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