SuzukiSavage.com - Keep abortion legal......

WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13179 Gender:	Re: Keep abortion legal...... Reply #15 - 12/03/19 at 14:11:51 ...definition is a heartbeat. That's not life, and not very scientific, sorry. That is the definition of science.
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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13179 Gender:	Re: Keep abortion legal...... Reply #16 - 12/03/19 at 14:15:22 If you believe a 26 week old unborn baby is in fact a baby, being against abortion is the only logical conclusion. If it's not viable outside the womb, then I don't. I believe this is what might be referred to as a gulf between us that can never be bridged.
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T And T Garage Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9839	Re: Keep abortion legal...... Reply #17 - 12/03/19 at 14:21:55 WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:11:51: ...definition is a heartbeat. That's not life, and not very scientific, sorry. That is the definition of science. Scientists have grown heart tissue in the lab that beats. That is not life.
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T And T Garage

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Re: Keep abortion legal......
Reply #18 - 12/03/19 at 14:22:42

WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:15:22:

If you believe a 26 week old unborn baby is in fact a baby, being against abortion is the only logical conclusion.

If it's not viable outside the womb, then I don't.

I believe this is what might be referred to as a gulf between us that can never be bridged.

So be it. At the moment, it's a woman's choice and it's legal.

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Re: Keep abortion legal......
Reply #19 - 12/03/19 at 14:36:46

WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 12:56:01:

Can you make a valid argument that 40 million abortions have had no effect on society?

Can you imagine the effect of putting 40 million women in prison?...
... even 4 million?...
... even 400,000?...

It's murder, right?... they won't just pay a fine.
Trials, lawyers, judges, prison,... say $250,000 taxpayers dollars per conviction. Average 4 year sentence.
100,000 convictions equals $25 billion....

Making something illegal doesn't make it stop,..
Abortion was illegal,... but it still happened.
Quite a lot.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13179 Gender:	Re: Keep abortion legal...... Reply #20 - 12/03/19 at 14:46:48 Can you imagine the effect of putting 40 million women in prison?... ... even 4 million?... Are you going to put 50 million in prison who refuse to turn over 'assault' weapons? See, that's really not a valid part of the argument now is it?
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WebsterMark

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Re: Keep abortion legal......
Reply #21 - 12/03/19 at 14:47:28

T And T Garage wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:22:42:

WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:15:22:

If you believe a 26 week old unborn baby is in fact a baby, being against abortion is the only logical conclusion.

If it's not viable outside the womb, then I don't.

I believe this is what might be referred to as a gulf between us that can never be bridged.

So be it. At the moment, it's a woman's choice and it's legal.

So be it. At the moment anyway.

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Serowbot

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Re: Keep abortion legal......
Reply #22 - 12/03/19 at 15:11:52

WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:46:48:

Can you imagine the effect of putting 40 million women in prison?...
... even 4 million?...

Are you going to put 50 million in prison who refuse to turn over 'assault' weapons?

See, that's really not a valid part of the argument now is it?

Fines,.. confiscation,... confiscate all their weapons, a felon can't own them.... etc...

What do you suggest as the penalty for an illegal abortion?...
You say it's murder.
Community service?

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raydawg

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Re: Keep abortion legal......
Reply #23 - 12/03/19 at 15:16:48

WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:46:48:

Can you imagine the effect of putting 40 million women in prison?...
... even 4 million?...

Are you going to put 50 million in prison who refuse to turn over 'assault' weapons?

See, that's really not a valid part of the argument now is it?

Yes...when it only impacts you, and not me.... Grin

Again, lets back up to something as basic, yet such a pillar, to what separates us, from so many other forms of governance.....

free speech

The moment you start putting conditions on it, you undermine its foundation......

You can justify it all you want, label this censoring, under the guise of it poses a threat, etc.....

You have to be really honest, to see this as it IS..... or by default, res ipsa loquitur

However.....any assaults upon this freedom, will only strengthen it, in the long run, but yes, many victims will lay ruined, by those trying to capitalize upon it for self promotions/beliefs, but any victory will be fleeting, and consuming, of true peace, because it is not sustainable without force....

If you can choose just one, which do you think will yield better overall results?

1. Trying to prove you are right.
2. Trying to find agreement.

PS: Overall, a pretty good exchange guys, very little name calling, etc.

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Re: Keep abortion legal......
Reply #24 - 12/03/19 at 15:21:58

Serowbot wrote on 12/03/19 at 15:11:52:

WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:46:48:

Can you imagine the effect of putting 40 million women in prison?...
... even 4 million?...

Are you going to put 50 million in prison who refuse to turn over 'assault' weapons?

See, that's really not a valid part of the argument now is it?

Fines,.. confiscation,... confiscate all their weapons, a felon can't own them.... etc...

What do you suggest as the penalty for an illegal abortion?...
You say it's murder.
Community service?

How about a better way to to not get pregnant in the first place?

Isn't that what gun control is all about, preventing senseless deaths?

The vast majority of abortions performed are merely for birth control, not medical conditions that threaten the pregnant woman life.

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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Serowbot

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Re: Keep abortion legal......
Reply #25 - 12/03/19 at 15:34:39

raydawg wrote on 12/03/19 at 15:21:58:

How about a better way to to not get pregnant in the first place?

Isn't that what gun control is all about, preventing senseless deaths?

The vast majority of abortions performed are merely for birth control, not medical conditions that threaten the pregnant woman life.

Is anybody against that?...
Some Righty's are against Obamacare paying for it,... some employers too.
They can reap what they sow... it would obviously not reduce abortions, so it seems conflicting with ideology.

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srinath

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Re: Keep abortion legal......
Reply #26 - 12/03/19 at 15:40:06

Serowbot wrote on 12/03/19 at 15:34:39:

raydawg wrote on 12/03/19 at 15:21:58:

How about a better way to to not get pregnant in the first place?

Isn't that what gun control is all about, preventing senseless deaths?

The vast majority of abortions performed are merely for birth control, not medical conditions that threaten the pregnant woman life.

Is anybody against that?...
Some Righty's are against Obamacare paying for it,... some employers too.
They can reap what they sow... it would obviously not reduce abortions, so it seems conflicting with ideology.

Apparently the reduction in crime a few years ago was a direct result of abortions being legalized about 15-20 yrs prior.
Having said that - I wish there would be a lot fewer abortions, and the adoption supply chain be functional and not hideously expensive. Birth rates are already very very low in the US and most of the west. No sense in killing some of the ones that are likely to be born.
Like I said - supply chain of every commodity from Ass to Zebra is busted beyond repair. Any darn regulations and this and that only makes it worse. I'd blame almost every current problem on the planet ultimately on that aspect.
Cool.
Srinath.

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T And T Garage

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Re: Keep abortion legal......
Reply #27 - 12/03/19 at 15:45:38

raydawg wrote on 12/03/19 at 15:21:58:

Serowbot wrote on 12/03/19 at 15:11:52:

WebsterMark wrote on 12/03/19 at 14:46:48:

Can you imagine the effect of putting 40 million women in prison?...
... even 4 million?...

Are you going to put 50 million in prison who refuse to turn over 'assault' weapons?

See, that's really not a valid part of the argument now is it?

Fines,.. confiscation,... confiscate all their weapons, a felon can't own them.... etc...

What do you suggest as the penalty for an illegal abortion?...
You say it's murder.
Community service?

How about a better way to to not get pregnant in the first place?

Isn't that what gun control is all about, preventing senseless deaths?

The vast majority of abortions performed are merely for birth control, not medical conditions that threaten the pregnant woman life.

Thus the need for things like Planned Parenthood. Education, access to contraceptives, and yes, abortions.

And again, it's not about wanting a woman to abort - it's about her right to choose to do so.

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raydawg

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Re: Keep abortion legal......
Reply #28 - 12/03/19 at 15:47:26

Serowbot wrote on 12/03/19 at 15:34:39:

raydawg wrote on 12/03/19 at 15:21:58:

How about a better way to to not get pregnant in the first place?

Isn't that what gun control is all about, preventing senseless deaths?

The vast majority of abortions performed are merely for birth control, not medical conditions that threaten the pregnant woman life.

Is anybody against that?...
Some Righty's are against Obamacare paying for it,... some employers too.
They can reap what they sow... it would obviously not reduce abortions, so it seems conflicting with ideology.

Not sure what you are saying....???

But let me preface this, you will always have the extremes, either way, and they will try to win their own arguments, based upon their own beliefs, etc....

That can help shape the final agreement but again, the final outcome needs to be more in the middle, where it will impact the most....
That is the goal of a successful democracy......

Once we come to governing with such intentions, the efficiency of governing will improve as well, meaning less cost, etc.....as the energy will go where its most needed, to the majority of folk, and the fringe will have to fund their own challenges to any oppositions they might harbor/hold against such policies.....

We have gotten away from a strong middle class which is the same as saying MOST legislative actions should be designed around them.....

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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)

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Eegore Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8402	Re: Keep abortion legal...... Reply #29 - 12/03/19 at 15:56:02 "PS: Overall, a pretty good exchange guys, very little name calling, etc." This has been a trend for the past few weeks, which I am sure we can see why as this has happened before. My analysis is some are simply adhering to the logic that this forum isn't that big of a deal, and others are simply not contributing at all.
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