SuzukiSavage.com - Has Trump broken a law with the alleged bribery?

DesertCat

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Has Trump broken a law with the alleged bribery?
11/28/19 at 18:23:50

Has Trump broken an actual law, federal or international, with his alleged bribery of the Ukraine government? If so, what is this law and where can I read about it?

If Trump did try to bribe a foreign government then I agree that that is pretty scummy and unethical but not necessarily illegal.

BTW, I'm not picking a side here. Just asking a question about possible illegality.

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Eegore

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Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber
Reply #1 - 11/28/19 at 19:47:51

"Has Trump broken an actual law, federal or international, with his alleged bribery of the Ukraine government? If so, what is this law and where can I read about it?"

Yes and No, depending on how people interpret the "law", in this case it would be Campaign Finance Law that was broken. It can be referenced here:

https://www.fec.gov/regulations/110-20/2019-annual-110#110-20

It wasn't technically "bribery" by definition to begin with, its more like "solicitation" which is addressed in the above referenced law.

The most important thing is that impeachment isn't the enforcement of criminal law. Law is used as reference, but the process is not one that reflects the US Judicial System. This means to be impeached the US President doesn't actually have to break any written law.

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DesertCat

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Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber
Reply #2 - 11/29/19 at 04:32:46

Eegore wrote on 11/28/19 at 19:47:51:

The most important thing is that impeachment isn't the enforcement of criminal law. Law is used as reference, but the process is not one that reflects the US Judicial System. This means to be impeached the US President doesn't actually have to break any written law.

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Yes, I keep forgetting this. Thanks.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 12847 Gender:	Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Reply #3 - 11/29/19 at 05:51:16 Bribery was substituted for the phrase quid pro quo because it polled better. The President is the one person who actually is above the law in certain aspects so impeachment is the political solution to that necessary quandary. It makes perfect sense when implemented properly.
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raydawg

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Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber
Reply #4 - 11/29/19 at 08:59:10

Yeah, Eegore and Mark are correct, the president has responsibilities and powers, that put in in a position, in a sense, be above the law....

Much in the same simplistic explanation the Head Chef, has final say, what leaves the kitchen, perhaps having to "override" the recipe, because of obstacles that arrived in the preparations of the meal..... ( yeah...pretty simple comparison... Grin

)

It was not meant to be a legislating (political) tool for the opposition, much has been written as to why.

It has been, of late, and has stained it's intended usage Wink

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Mavigogun

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Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber
Reply #5 - 11/29/19 at 20:31:14

That's a lie. Trump solicited Russia to commit a crime in service to his campaign on live TV. His operatives shared data on key battleground states with Russian operatives. He obstructed investigation into that circumstance. He prevented an act of Congress persuant to our national interest and security from being enacted for his personal advantage, soliciting the interference of both Ukrain and China in our democratic process.

This is explicitly what impeachment was created for. If you wanna see political corruption, Ray, look in the mirror.

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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Reply #6 - 11/29/19 at 21:04:11 Oh that's right.....you can't do it on TV, tongue in cheek, you must do it in person, hopefully with the mike turned.....off
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Mavigogun Serious Thumper Offline We roll farther together Posts: 775 Progressive Texas	Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Reply #7 - 11/29/19 at 21:23:09 Either method is a crime, and certainly no joke. Russia understood that- even if you act like you don't, Ray.
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eau de sauvage

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Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber
Reply #8 - 11/30/19 at 04:55:00

DesertCat wrote on 11/28/19 at 18:23:50:

Has Trump broken an actual law, federal or international, with his alleged bribery of the Ukraine government? If so, what is this law and where can I read about it?

TL ; DR ironically simply by refusing to allow Mulvaney and Bolton and now Nunes to testify which Trump is doing in order to conceal even more crimes, is obstruction of justice and is in itself yet another crime.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice

If you're serious about understanding how Trump damaged the national security interests of the USA, then check this out https://www.lawfareblog.com/we-wrote-starr-report-account-record-laffaire-ukr...

Two things i will say though is that there's more than one thing going on in this impeachment and while impeachment does not require a crime, there have been multiple crimes anyway. BTW 'high crimes and misdemeanours' as written in the Constitution refers to precisely the abuse of office for personal enrichment. Someone like Trump was exactly why the original framers put impeachment into the constitution, they'd just fcuked off the Monarchy, they didn't want a President who thought he could become a King.

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Vladimir Putin is calling the White House, begins one joke that’s been making the rounds. “Hello, Donald? I would like to discuss Ukraine with you.”

Trump: “What’s Ukraine?”

Putin: “Thanks, Donald!”

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/11/russian-jokes-tell-deeper-t...

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 12847 Gender:	Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Reply #9 - 11/30/19 at 05:48:51 while impeachment does not require a crime, Just thought I'd point out the only accurate statement in that entire post.
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Eegore Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 8006	Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Reply #10 - 11/30/19 at 06:09:58 What part of the Obstruction of Justice reference is incorrect? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obstruction_of_justice
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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 12847 Gender:	Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Reply #11 - 11/30/19 at 06:26:16 Oh please Eegore, you know what I meant.
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Mavigogun

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Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber
Reply #12 - 11/30/19 at 06:43:13

WebsterMark wrote on 11/30/19 at 06:26:16:

Oh please Eegore, you know what I meant.

Ya, we all got that clearly, declaring your excuse for discounting without consideration. Deny. Equivocate. Lie. You long ago sacrificed the requisite integrity for having your "judgment" regarded seriously. It's apiece with Trump questioning anyone's veracity- laughable, were the consequences not so dire.

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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Reply #13 - 11/30/19 at 08:17:47 Mavigogun wrote on 11/29/19 at 21:23:09: Either method is a crime, and certainly no joke. Russia understood that- even if you act like you don't, Ray. Oh....glad you now agree what Obama did/said, when he thought no one was listening....was wrong too, cool.
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Mavigogun Serious Thumper Offline We roll farther together Posts: 775 Progressive Texas	Re: Has Trump broken a law with the alleged briber Reply #14 - 11/30/19 at 08:28:59 raydawg wrote on 11/30/19 at 08:17:47: Oh....glad you now agree what Obama did/said, when he thought no one was listening....was wrong too, cool. Refusing-to-get-the-point and deflection is part and parcel of the debasement you now perform daily on behalf of this President.
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