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Carb cleaning (Read 213 times)
Keifer
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Carb cleaning
10/28/19 at 13:44:45
 
Hi, I have been using this site as well as Clymers.  I'm disassembling the carb to give it a cleaning.  

I have found the Main jet is a 155, and the pilot jet says 47.5 on the side.  This is a 93 Canadian bike, from the specs listed on this site that probably is stock.  The pilot air jet says 230 for whatever that's worth.  I'm at sea level, cold weather riding, should I leave the settings alone?  FWIW I have to get a new pilot jet anyway since I damaged it getting it out..

I cannot get the main needle jet out(?)...I removed the main jet, and the washer, but I'm afraid of damaging the needle jet.  It should remove inside towards the carb throat right?  Not towards the bowl? Does it screw out or just push out?

Also someone else stripped the screws holding the plate in the way of removing the choke pull.  The choke seems clean and works, will I be sorry if I don't try and get it out after all to clean it?

Thanks for any advice..
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stewmills
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #1 - 10/28/19 at 13:52:34
 
The jet should screw out towards the bowl side. Nothing I am aware of comes out in the main carb throat.

On the choke...if it ain't broke don't fix it. Noting in there worth fooling with at the risk of breaking things worse. Cleaning the jets and slide are the most important here. DO NOT use carb cleaner on the float needle or rubber diaphragm. Carb cleaner is bad for plastics and rubber. WD40 or other similar sprays are best for plastic stuff. Just make certain to wipe off any "residue" from the slide and carb body so the oil is not collecting dirt causing the slide to stick. These need to be nice and smooth and cleaned with a clean lint free cloth before final install.
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #2 - 10/28/19 at 14:00:35
 
stewmills wrote on 10/28/19 at 13:52:34:
The jet should screw out towards the bowl side. Nothing I am aware of comes out in the main carb throat.
 


Nope, the needle jet pushes up away from the bowl.

The main jet unscrews towards the bowl.
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Keifer
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #3 - 10/28/19 at 14:00:41
 
Thanks for the input!

I was able to remove the main jet (it screws out as you mention) but the needle jet inside seems to be stuck.  ..

And roger with the no carb cleaner on the rubber/plastic... I didn't notice the float needle was plastic but it does have a black tapered end.  I will use dish soap on the diaphragms (read that elsewhere here)

What should I use to lube the slide?  WD40 will clean, but should anything be put on the slide after so it doesn't stick?
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #4 - 10/28/19 at 14:04:28
 
Keifer wrote on 10/28/19 at 14:00:41:
What should I use to lube the slide?  WD40 will clean, but should anything be put on the slide after so it doesn't stick?


Generally nothing as the black coating is dry lube, although I use injector cleaner in the gas and last time I took it out it was wet with it.
So when I put it back in, I just applied a couple of drops and wiped it around.
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #5 - 10/28/19 at 16:43:27
 
Keifer wrote on 10/28/19 at 13:44:45:
I'm at sea level, cold weather riding, should I leave the settings alone?  
-----------------------

If you are happy with the bike the way it runs now, then you should leave it alone.

Why are you cleaning the carb?  Were you having any issues?  

IMO, if the bike runs well, the carb shouldn't be "cleaned".  Most people do more harm than good when "cleaning" the carb.  Same goes for "jetting" the carb because the internet says to jet the carb.  
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Keifer
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #6 - 11/17/19 at 11:29:50
 
I bought it as a project, it had been sitting outside for some time.  It would run, but not idle.  Had to constantly feather the throttle, and it backfires.  So I've never had it 'running' enough to see if it needs jetting.  I will just replace the jets with the same sizes... once its cleaned (hopefully I don't screw it up) and see from there.  I finally got the parts in the mail...

In the below photo... what is this hole's function?  It is completely plugged.
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« Last Edit: 11/18/19 at 08:54:17 by Keifer »  

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Keifer
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #7 - 11/18/19 at 08:54:53
 
Hole 2
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Keifer
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #8 - 11/18/19 at 08:55:35
 
Hole 3.  Just need to know if these should be free and clear...
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #9 - 11/18/19 at 09:58:23
 
That orifice in the carb throat is part of the idle circuit. That would explain why the bike doesn't idle. Gummout carb cleaner is your friend here. Try to soak the clogged passages for a few hours and then use compressed air to blow them out. When you think you have it right, put the red wand on the can of cleaner and squirt some cleaner into the orifice to ensure that the fluid comes out somewhere else. Avoid sticking stuff into the holes as you can create bigger problems than you started with.

You should assemble the carb dry. A few of my bikes have advanced carbs (Keihin MX Flat-side) that have o-rings and diaphragms that I dab with grease to keep things in place while I reassemble, but the S40 carb is a simple device. If it makes you happy, you can lightly coat the float bowl gasket and the needle-valve o-ring with a little oil to ensure they don't slip as you reassemble.
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #10 - 11/19/19 at 01:09:37
 
I believe that hole in the throat of the carburetor (hole #1) is your main air bleed jet.  I'm sorry to disagree with you Gary, but I don't think it's part of the idle circuit.

The Main Air Bleed affects your mixture at higher throttle positions.  It works in conjunction with the Main Jet.  A larger air bleed will delay the onset of the main circuit and also lean out the mixture by admitting more air to the emulsion tube (needle jet).  Larger air bleed, leaner mixture; smaller air bleed, richer mixture; plugged air bleed, super-rich mixture.

If it is completely obstructed, you must clean it out.  It is a fixed jet (i.e. pressed into the carburetor body) so you can't remove it.  Gary is right to caution you about poking stuff in that jet.  But alas, sometimes there's just no other way.  If you can't clear the obstruction with carb cleaner, you may have to resort to mechanical cleaning.

The main air bleed is .024" (.6mm).  That is equivalent to a #73 drill bit.  I know, I know, drill bits can be real bad news for a jet.  But if its plugged with hard crud, you may have no other choice but to resort to some sort of hard implement.  If you have to clear it mechanically, I suggest you use the back end of a #74 or a #73 drill bit.  Not the pointed side, the blunt side.  As long as you don't use anything larger than a #73, you shouldn't enlarge the jet.  You just have to be careful.  You don't wanna remove metal, you just wanna remove crud.  BTW, I have found that PineSol softens up old fuel crud quite nicely.  I know that sounds crazy but it actually works.  Note that micro-drills are wire gage, so a #73 (.0240") is larger in diameter than a #74 (.0225").

Keep in mind that when you push the crud out of that air bleed, it's gonna go into the air passage behind the jet.  That passage leads to the cavity that surrounds the needle jet (AKA emulsion tube).  You should remove the needle jet before you clear the air bleed.  That way, when you break the crud loose it has a path for exit from the carb body.  Flush it good with carb cleaner, spraying through the air bleed from the inlet side of the carb towards the throttle plate.
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #11 - 11/19/19 at 01:26:32
 
Hole #2 (there are actually three) provides the fuel & air emulsion to your enrichment circuit.  The fuel enrichment jet is a fixed jet pressed into your float bowl.  The brass tube with three small holes that you show in your picture is situated in a cavity in the float bowl.  At the bottom of that cavity, there is a brass jet.  That brass jet is your enrichment fuel supply.  It's a very small jet and very susceptible to plugging up with crud because it is located at the bottom of the float bowl.

If the hole you are showing in your picture is plugged, then the other two holes in the brass tube are also probably plugged, and the enrichment fuel jet (in the float bowl) is also probably plugged.  If you want your enricher to function, you have to clean all those holes out.  The holes in the brass tube are straight forward and should be pretty easy to clean out.  That jet in the bottom of the float bowl is another story.  You can check to see if its plugged by inserting the plastic tube on the carb cleaner down into the hole in the float bowl and spraying through the jet.  You should observe cleaner exiting out the adjoining hole in the bottom of the bowl.  This picture shows the holes in question.
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #12 - 11/19/19 at 01:35:37
 
Hole #3 is a mystery hole.  It is factory-plugged with a brass rod.  It appears to me to be a feature of the manufacturing process.  You will see plugs in various other areas on the carburetor.  They drill passages that intersect at different angles, then plug an opening where the drill entered or exited.  It looks to me like they drilled a passage and then plugged it with a brass rod.  You have probably noticed the brass rod running up & down through the venturi of your carburetor.  Its actually a plug.

Look familiar?
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #13 - 11/19/19 at 01:40:40
 
Good luck Keifer.  I hope I've been of some assistance.  Don't rule out the PineSol.  It really does work.  You have to let it soak for a day or two, but it softens up the petrified fuel deposits pretty good, and then when you give it a good squirt of Gumout the crud is more like soft tar than concrete, so the Gumout has a fighting chance of blasting the goo away.  Cool
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Re: Carb cleaning
Reply #14 - 11/19/19 at 06:26:46
 
Keifer wrote on 11/17/19 at 11:29:50:
I bought it as a project, it had been sitting outside for some time.  It would run, but not idle.  Had to constantly feather the throttle, and it backfires.  So I've never had it 'running' enough to see if it needs jetting.  I will just replace the jets with the same sizes... once its cleaned (hopefully I don't screw it up) and see from there.  I finally got the parts in the mail...

In the below photo... what is this hole's function?  It is completely plugged.
-----------------------

If the bike is stock, then I would make sure the jets currently installed are still stock or close to stock.  The reason being is that you know the bike should run reasonably well with stock jetting.  This lets you focus on the things that might be causing it to run poorly (like your clogged passages).  

I mention this because you never know what someone else did to the bike before you got it and you have no idea how well it ran when they parked it.  Stock jetting is a nice place to start unless the bike has a lot of performance mods.
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