Donate!
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register :: View Members
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Bernie Uncut (Read 80 times)
T And T Garage
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9652

Bernie Uncut
08/13/19 at 06:06:03
 
Crazy?

Not even close.

Just plain crazy smart



Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9738

Gender: male
Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #1 - 08/13/19 at 11:18:59
 
I am paraphrasing but he said "the function of the current healthcare system is not to provide healthcare but to make money for healthcare is a business".

Yes.

Free market capitalism always delivers the highest quality at the lowest cost. It's only when that system is interrupted do one of those two attributes suffer. Heathcare is no different.

A government run healthcare system would not provide high-quality and it would not be inexpensive. A government run healthcare system in the United States would resemble the VA hospitals. You're  fooling yourself if you don't believe that.

I don't know the complete solution to healthcare in United States but I know it's not to duplicate the failures we repeatedly see from government run institutions. On another thread, we're  laughing somewhat at the inability of a prison system to, at a bare minimum, keep an inmate alive. This particular inmate might've been one of the highest profile inmates in custody today yet he was able to kill himself.

The FAA is under fire for the Boeing 737 max debacle.  Think back on the hundreds if not thousands and thousands of examples of government program failure. We came up with this idea about Social Security and immediately politicians stole all the money that was supposedly in a lockbox to use for other purposes. My God, the list goes on and on and on.....

What in the world makes anyone think that something as complicated as the US healthcare system could somehow be organized and run by unelected bureaucrats appointed by politicians seeking votes?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
T And T Garage
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9652

Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #2 - 08/13/19 at 11:42:39
 
WebsterMark wrote on 08/13/19 at 11:18:59:
I am paraphrasing but he said "the function of the current healthcare system is not to provide healthcare but to make money for healthcare is a business".

Yes.

You don't see a problem in making money over providing healthcare to people?  That's at best, disingenuous - at worst, evil.

Free market capitalism always delivers the highest quality at the lowest cost.

No, it doesn't.  Why is insulin (and most every other drug) so much more expensive here than in Canada?  There is no control over big pharma.  They spend hundreds of millions on lobbying.

It's only when that system is interrupted do one of those two attributes suffer. Heathcare is no different.

Wrong - see above.

A government run healthcare system would not provide high-quality and it would not be inexpensive. A government run healthcare system in the United States would resemble the VA hospitals. You're  fooling yourself if you don't believe that.

That's pretty much word for word the narrative that the insurance companies and drug companies are pushing.

You think it's reasonable to assume that all of a sudden, every hospital will somehow disappear?  All those doctors, nurses, equipment, etc. will immediately be off limits?  No.

Yeah, there are problems in Canada, but no one there is going bankrupt paying for their healthcare.  When you supplant the Hippocratic Oath with a ledger, that's a huge problem.


I don't know the complete solution to healthcare in United States but I know it's not to duplicate the failures we repeatedly see from government run institutions. On another thread, we're  laughing somewhat at the inability of a prison system to, at a bare minimum, keep an inmate alive. This particular inmate might've been one of the highest profile inmates in custody today yet he was able to kill himself.

The FAA is under fire for the Boeing 737 max debacle.  Think back on the hundreds if not thousands and thousands of examples of government program failure. We came up with this idea about Social Security and immediately politicians stole all the money that was supposedly in a lockbox to use for other purposes. My God, the list goes on and on and on.....

What in the world makes anyone think that something as complicated as the US healthcare system could somehow be organized and run by unelected bureaucrats appointed by politicians seeking votes?


The current system does not work.  People actually die because they don't have access to healthcare.  In the US, for the first time in history, our life expectancy has gone down.

Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9738

Gender: male
Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #3 - 08/13/19 at 11:59:11
 
You don't see a problem in making money over providing healthcare to people?  That's at best, disingenuous - at worst, evil.

Not at all. The prosperity we all enjoy today is from business' making profits.

When my son was 1 years old, somehow he got an infection that spread rapidly. We had to rush him to hospital where he was in ICU for a few days being treated with some very high tech equipment. The companies that made that equipment did it for profit. I benefited from it. To this day, I remember that lesson. It was one of the catalyst that turned me from a Democratic voter to a conservative. (the final nail in the coffin was being in management at a Union shop...)

I would never reveal who I am or who I work for, but I absolutely, positively guarantee that you, T and T Garage, have benefited from my companies product. 100% certainty. Yes, we are totally dedicated to quality and providing products that are higher performing than anyone else's because that's the owner's mandate, but we ultimately make money at it. A lot of money. You benefit.

So your equation of either making money or provide healthcare is not correct. Both are done.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9738

Gender: male
Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #4 - 08/13/19 at 12:00:50
 
No, it doesn't.  Why is insulin (and most every other drug) so much more expensive here than in Canada?  There is no control over big pharma.  They spend hundreds of millions on lobbying.

It's only when that system is interrupted do one of those two attributes suffer. Heathcare is no different.

Wrong - see above.

Because the economy and wealth of the US subsidizes other markets. Imagine the Canadian/US border disappeared. What would happen to the price of Canadian insulin?
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9738

Gender: male
Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #5 - 08/13/19 at 12:08:16
 
You think it's reasonable to assume that all of a sudden, every hospital will somehow disappear?  All those doctors, nurses, equipment, etc. will immediately be off limits?  No.

No, of course not. Some doctors and nurses are angels. But take the profit motive away, and the system begins to change. If you had something seriously wrong with you, you would go to the hospital that had the combination of the best doctors and the best equipment. That takes money. That takes profit.  


The current system does not work.  People actually die because they don't have access to healthcare.  In the US, for the first time in history, our life expectancy has gone down.


I've read life expectancy is down due to drug overdose and suicides. I've also read other nations are facing the same thing. I remember reading quite a while ago so I can't swear this is still true, but because of our high quality healthcare system for newborns, we birth live babies with little chance at survival far more often than other places. From a math point of view, that matters.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
T And T Garage
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9652

Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #6 - 08/13/19 at 12:27:24
 
WebsterMark wrote on 08/13/19 at 11:59:11:
You don't see a problem in making money over providing healthcare to people?  That's at best, disingenuous - at worst, evil.

Not at all. The prosperity we all enjoy today is from business' making profits.

Directly at the cost of this nation's health?

No - not by me.  Never.


When my son was 1 years old, somehow he got an infection that spread rapidly. We had to rush him to hospital where he was in ICU for a few days being treated with some very high tech equipment. The companies that made that equipment did it for profit. I benefited from it. To this day, I remember that lesson. It was one of the catalyst that turned me from a Democratic voter to a conservative. (the final nail in the coffin was being in management at a Union shop...)

Well, it's great that you had insurance, isn't it?  Had you been a poor person, with no access - do you think the outcome would have been the same?

Really think about that, mark.


I would never reveal who I am or who I work for, but I absolutely, positively guarantee that you, T and T Garage, have benefited from my companies product. 100% certainty. Yes, we are totally dedicated to quality and providing products that are higher performing than anyone else's because that's the owner's mandate, but we ultimately make money at it. A lot of money. You benefit.

Perhaps I do, but that doesn't make it right.

If I sold mass quantities of heroin, and then built community centers with my millions, then all those kids and families using those centers would benefit, right?  What about the junkies?  What about the gang bangers selling my product and killing innocent people?

See how that works?

The problem with pure capitalism is that it's very selective in who it benefits.

You don't see it because you don't have any exposure to that world of want.  I guess you can be thankful in that - as well as those covered under your insurance.

So your equation of either making money or provide healthcare is not correct. Both are done.


No they're not.  When profit is your primary concern - providing care can only be second.  That's not the country we live in.  Imagine if Sir Alexander Fleming or Jonas Salk had that attitude. (yeah, yeah, I've heard the stories about how it wasn't possible to patent the polio vaccine, so don't start - my point is made).
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
T And T Garage
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9652

Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #7 - 08/13/19 at 12:30:30
 
WebsterMark wrote on 08/13/19 at 12:00:50:
No, it doesn't.  Why is insulin (and most every other drug) so much more expensive here than in Canada?  There is no control over big pharma.  They spend hundreds of millions on lobbying.

It's only when that system is interrupted do one of those two attributes suffer. Heathcare is no different.

Wrong - see above.

Because the economy and wealth of the US subsidizes other markets. Imagine the Canadian/US border disappeared. What would happen to the price of Canadian insulin?


Well, that just points out that our system is broken.  There's no other reason besides profit that insulin is more expensive in the US.  
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
T And T Garage
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9652

Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #8 - 08/13/19 at 12:38:14
 
WebsterMark wrote on 08/13/19 at 12:08:16:
You think it's reasonable to assume that all of a sudden, every hospital will somehow disappear?  All those doctors, nurses, equipment, etc. will immediately be off limits?  No.

No, of course not. Some doctors and nurses are angels. But take the profit motive away, and the system begins to change. If you had something seriously wrong with you, you would go to the hospital that had the combination of the best doctors and the best equipment. That takes money. That takes profit.  

It's not about the attitudes of the doctors and nurses, it's about how the the entire healthcare system currently operates.

To repeat - if profit is your first motive, then providing care can only be second.  No ifs, ands or buts.

Obviously the doctors and nurses and administrators would have to be paid the exact same.  Even then, we'd still be light years ahead of where we're at today in terms of cost.



The current system does not work.  People actually die because they don't have access to healthcare.  In the US, for the first time in history, our life expectancy has gone down.


I've read life expectancy is down due to drug overdose and suicides. I've also read other nations are facing the same thing. I remember reading quite a while ago so I can't swear this is still true, but because of our high quality healthcare system for newborns, we birth live babies with little chance at survival far more often than other places. From a math point of view, that matters.


If you went further into Bernie's video, you'd have seen a keen insight to why this is happening.

The disease of despair has a lot of truth to it.

We're living in tough times - not enough people can see that.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9738

Gender: male
Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #9 - 08/13/19 at 13:03:36
 
T And T Garage wrote on 08/13/19 at 12:30:30:
WebsterMark wrote on 08/13/19 at 12:00:50:
No, it doesn't.  Why is insulin (and most every other drug) so much more expensive here than in Canada?  There is no control over big pharma.  They spend hundreds of millions on lobbying.

It's only when that system is interrupted do one of those two attributes suffer. Heathcare is no different.

Wrong - see above.

Because the economy and wealth of the US subsidizes other markets. Imagine the Canadian/US border disappeared. What would happen to the price of Canadian insulin?


Well, that just points out that our system is broken.  There's no other reason besides profit that insulin is more expensive in the US.  


1) Its not broken. I just had a terrible accident a few weeks ago. After rush to ER, therapy and drugs, I'm 99% of normal. Not a broken system.

2) There's no other reason besides profit that the company you work for pays you.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9738

Gender: male
Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #10 - 08/13/19 at 13:05:08
 
The disease of despair has a lot of truth to it.

We're living in tough times - not enough people can see that.


I'd suggest we are living in very prosperous times which creates its own form of despair. You have to chew on that for a while.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
T And T Garage
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9652

Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #11 - 08/13/19 at 13:52:28
 
WebsterMark wrote on 08/13/19 at 13:03:36:
T And T Garage wrote on 08/13/19 at 12:30:30:
WebsterMark wrote on 08/13/19 at 12:00:50:
No, it doesn't.  Why is insulin (and most every other drug) so much more expensive here than in Canada?  There is no control over big pharma.  They spend hundreds of millions on lobbying.

It's only when that system is interrupted do one of those two attributes suffer. Heathcare is no different.

Wrong - see above.

Because the economy and wealth of the US subsidizes other markets. Imagine the Canadian/US border disappeared. What would happen to the price of Canadian insulin?


Well, that just points out that our system is broken.  There's no other reason besides profit that insulin is more expensive in the US.  


1) Its not broken. I just had a terrible accident a few weeks ago. After rush to ER, therapy and drugs, I'm 99% of normal. Not a broken system.

Had you not had insurance, mark, things would have been totally different.  For some reason, you continue to ignore that fact.

2) There's no other reason besides profit that the company you work for pays you.


Nope.  But I don't work in the medical field.

Car salesmen, bar owners, widget salespeople, hair stylists, etc., etc. are not providing life sustaining services.

Huge difference.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
T And T Garage
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9652

Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #12 - 08/13/19 at 13:55:40
 
WebsterMark wrote on 08/13/19 at 13:05:08:
The disease of despair has a lot of truth to it.

We're living in tough times - not enough people can see that.


I'd suggest we are living in very prosperous times which creates its own form of despair. You have to chew on that for a while.



Suggest all you want.  As I said - not enough people see the tough side of things.  Be thankful that you're not one of the tens of millions with sh!tty or even non-existent access to healthcare, just to mention one thing.  

With the wealth we have in this country, no one should be denied healthcare, a fair wage and shelter.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9738

Gender: male
Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #13 - 08/13/19 at 14:52:59
 
1) Its not broken. I just had a terrible accident a few weeks ago. After rush to ER, therapy and drugs, I'm 99% of normal. Not a broken system.

Had you not had insurance, mark, things would have been totally different.  For some reason, you continue to ignore that fact.


I'm not ignoring that fact. I'm highlighting that fact. Hospitals don't turn away anyone based on their ability to pay. Is it the same level of care as mine? No. Is my level of care is the same as a mega-rich guy? No. And as you pointed out, there are people who do healthcare for the sake of healthcare and not profit. The angels I referred to before.  

2) There's no other reason besides profit that the company you work for pays you.

Nope.  But I don't work in the medical field
.

Unless you work for the government profit is the only reason. Even not profits rely on funding from profitable people and companies. Even government to a degree relies on prosperity to conduct its business.
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
WebsterMark
Serious Thumper
*****
Offline

SuzukiSavage.com
Rocks!

Posts: 9738

Gender: male
Re: Bernie Uncut
Reply #14 - 08/13/19 at 14:57:07
 
With the wealth we have in this country, no one should be denied healthcare, a fair wage and shelter.

The fact is, if you're an American today without significant physical or mental disabilities and you do not have healthcare, a fair wage and shelter, its your fault for bad choices or your parents fault for not setting you up for success. People that the Book of James would call in his day; orphans and widows.

In those cases, sure we should step in and offer aid, training etc...
Back to top
 
 
  IP Logged
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print


« Home

 
« Home
SuzukiSavage.com
02/28/20 at 09:50:16



General CategoryPolitics, Religion (Tall Table) › Bernie Uncut


SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2!
YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved.