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The Anti-tyranny Amendment (Read 119 times)
WebsterMark
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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #15 - 08/13/19 at 12:58:48
 

For instance we may show restraint against Afghanistan insurgents in Afghanistan but if they came in through Mexico and attempted invasion in El Paso we would use totally different guidelines for engagement.  

I agree. But that's not the exercise. The exercise is based on our own government vs us. Imagine a slow turn towards communism that quickly escalated. US citizens protested in mass. That's different than an invasion of foreigners through El Paso.

It seems highly unlikely whatever remained of a US government would turn the full force against a civilian population. What would be the point? It's like $hitting in your house. Sure, you could, but then you've got nothing.

It would be a door to door style battle instead.
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WebsterMark
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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #16 - 08/13/19 at 12:59:51
 
But if you ask me straight out - there's no way an armed militia could stand against today's military.  No chance whatsoever.

They did it in Afghanistan, Somalia and dozens of other places. Why would this be any different?
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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #17 - 08/13/19 at 13:07:10
 
"They did it in Afghanistan, Somalia and dozens of other places. Why would this be any different?"

 Implementation of Use of Force models with a very large restriction on available resources.  They weren't allowed to use armor in Somalia for instance.  

 Again, asking for comparison about why we didn't do something in Afghanistan (or any country in the world) is a futile exercise unless we impose the same restrictions upon CENTCOM in the US.

You say "For this exercise, no limits......" then compare to a very limited resource environment on Foreign soil like Afghanistan.  Which is it?  Comparison to foreign engagements, or a no limits attack on the US citizen?

 Door to Door is a complete disaster.  Nobody prefers "Urban Warfare" on the invading side.  So if there are "No Limits" then door to door is not an option due to the high-resource, high-time, high-casualty rate.  

 It would make no logical sense to implement a high-casualty strategy if a low-casualty strategy is available, and approved.

 So are we talking the entire US, or a portion?

 Are we re-establishing control of physical property, or eliminating active human presence?

 Is there a time limit, or suggested time frame for the operation to succeed?
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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #18 - 08/13/19 at 13:57:31
 
WebsterMark wrote on 08/13/19 at 12:59:51:
But if you ask me straight out - there's no way an armed militia could stand against today's military.  No chance whatsoever.

They did it in Afghanistan, Somalia and dozens of other places. Why would this be any different?


Yes... in Afghanistan, not in new Mexico, or California, or anywhere else.  Afghanistan lacks a key element that we have in the USA - the Constitution.
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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #19 - 08/13/19 at 14:30:10
 
Somalia and Afghanistan were being propped up by the US, against civil unrest,... and terrorist groups.
... as usual, a sort of policing action.

In the case of a civilian uprising against our own government, well... they failed against Lincoln, and that was a much more even fight.
Imagine Lincoln having tanks and drones, tear gas, and guided missiles... fighter jets, and A10's...
The military could shut down your communications, power and water and still keep theirs.
Take away your gasoline.
The question isn't could they win,... just how much force would be needed.
US military force is virtually unlimited.

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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #20 - 08/13/19 at 14:44:21
 
I don't think so. I think we'd put up enough of a resistance that they'd be forced to CONSIDER escalating out of their comfort level. They would have a line they wouldn't cross and we'd adjust to that line and drag the fight on. I think it's a fight an armed citizenry could in fact win in the sense they didn't lose.
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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #21 - 08/13/19 at 14:55:28
 
Where was that line in the Civil War?...
It was a pretty nasty business.
This time would be worse.  
US military is unimaginably stronger.
All the civilian population has is multi shooter pop guns instead of single shooter pop guns.

(Civil War had some multi shooters,... I know)...
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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #22 - 08/13/19 at 15:44:18
 
Yes, it would be ugly. But we would not go quietly.
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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #23 - 08/13/19 at 15:52:36
 
You'd get quiet once they zipped you into the body bag... Roll Eyes
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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #24 - 08/13/19 at 16:02:03
 
"They would have a line they wouldn't cross and we'd adjust to that line and drag the fight on."

 How are you establishing this?  I've never heard of a situation with "unlimited" as in there is no limit or line or situation where application of available resources is not to be used.

 How are you defining "unlimited"?  To me that means use small nuclear warheads,  in areas where the fallout is manageable.  Use gas, like chlorine.  Use Anthrax.  Poison water, food, livestock and people. Start with children.  Shut down power as long as needed.

 Why on  earth would an apposing force choose to use a method that is less effective if there is "no limit" to where when and how they can use those methods?


 It sounds to me like you are establishing limits.  Guns only.  Military rules of engagement for domestic use of force only.  

 Now if we go the national epidemic scale, most civilians would die in days without a single gun fired.  So are you saying physical violence with kinetic rounds only?
 
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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #25 - 08/13/19 at 16:23:01
 
I wouldn't expect viral agents,... chemical agents could be more selective without the danger of spread.

This really is an absurd thing to contemplate.
Going quietly or screaming like mad, makes no difference.
You lose...
This is David and Goliath in a pea gravel pit.


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Re: The Anti-tyranny Amendment
Reply #26 - 08/13/19 at 16:54:00
 

"I wouldn't expect viral agents,... chemical agents could be more selective without the danger of spread."

 Agents approved for weaponization have short lifespan to eliminate mutation over time and have reliable vaccination.  The objective is to get people to vaccinate voluntarily which means leaving their homes and communities to quarantine centers.

 No guns, just a trip to get a shot, or death.  Your choice.

"This is David and Goliath in a pea gravel pit."

 Agreed.  This idea that there would be some 1960's style boots on the ground invasion is very outdated.
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