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MnSpring

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #75 - 08/07/19 at 06:12:25

T And T Garage wrote on 08/07/19 at 05:42:42:
Sensible control

Please describe that.
NOT USING ANY, of the EXISTING regulations !
Their has not been ANY, 'Gun-Banner" that can.

'Street' Drugs, 190 Americans a DAY, die.
Making them Illegal is a great way to Stop, Illegal Drugs.

"Among the more than 70,200 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2017, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs "

Gee, how's that, 'war on Drugs' going.

"In one year, drug overdoses killed more Americans than the entire Vietnam War did"
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/6/15743986/opioid-epidemic-ove...

(and that is a very strongly LEFT/LIBERAL source)

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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WebsterMark

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #76 - 08/07/19 at 07:26:44

T And T Garage wrote on 08/07/19 at 05:42:42:

WebsterMark wrote on 08/07/19 at 05:30:25:

T And T Garage wrote on 08/06/19 at 20:19:13:

Eegore wrote on 08/06/19 at 19:57:56:

"The only reasonable solution is
FUKKING SURRENDER?"

I wouldn't. But I do accept that an aircraft carrier strike group will make short work of my personal stash of weapons and ammo. Its called reality.

In reality a battle between civilian and the US military would be exceptionally one-sided. That's not even taking into consideration the CDC and all the biological weaponization.

Like I said before, some tech guys would do more damage these days than anyone's stash of food, guns and ammo. Times have changed, fight the battle you can win.

Well put once again Eegore.

This is a topic that's been brought up before and our leftist friends don't have much of a response. And apparently neither does Eegore.

You mention a civilian military would have no chance against a strike group.

Yeh, I'd say that's pretty accurate.

Then why are we still screwing around in Afghanistan? Why are we just the latest country to flail helplessly in that place? Why is our war on terror going on and on.....decades.

Money. Government contractors. "War on terror" propaganda. Take your pick. It's got nothing to do with "democracy".

Why is Israel still plagued by the Palestinians throwing rocks or blowing up one pizza parlor at a time? Blackhawk Down was on TV the other day. Why did we lose a single solider in that $hithole?

See above.

All for the same reason. We don't use our full force. Clinton refused orders (and correctly so) for gun ships in the Mogadishu situation. Israel could end the Palestinians tomorrow if they wanted to. We could be done with this war on terror by the weekend if we wanted to. But none of those things are going to happen.

The simple fact is a full on attack on US citizens by a US military force would result in the same thing. Set aside for a moment the attacking force would be made up of American boys some of who would have serious hesitation, the Afghanistan or War on Terror situation would be duplicated. If you're not going to carpet bomb the neighborhood and then go pick up the pieces, you've got to one house at a time. There are places in Southern Missouri I know where the boys there would wage quite a fight. I dare you to go up to Montana and send in a force. Can you say "Red Dawn"!

Can you say - complete Hollywood bullsh!t? There would be no need for any ground assault. Drones would do the work - but keep it real - this scenario will never happen. Look no further than the bundy's pathetic militia standoff in Montana.

One of the other great arguments I've heard about this is to imagine what if slaves in the early days of the US had been allowed to own firearms. This is a thought experiment so don't get hung up on the details. If slaves had firearms, you think some owner would sell that guys kids? You think they'd stand by and get whipped?

Strawman. Different time, different weapons, different attitudes. Completely non-relatable.

The US Government is not be able to turn its military against its citizens in a manner that preserves the nation. And that is why we have a 2nd Amendment. To repel our own military as an invading force.

Never. Gonna. Happen.

Get over it. Besides, no one (here) wants to ban all guns. Sensible control at the federal level.

You said absolutely nothing of value. Someone else take this on please, preferably someone with a brain.

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28660 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Reply #77 - 08/07/19 at 08:00:55 MnSpring wrote on 08/07/19 at 06:12:25: *"Among the more than 70,200 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2017, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs "* Putting more drugs on he street will fix that.
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T And T Garage

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #78 - 08/07/19 at 08:14:50

MnSpring wrote on 08/07/19 at 06:12:25:

T And T Garage wrote on 08/07/19 at 05:42:42:
Sensible control

Please describe that.

No, why should I waste my time? You know what it is, you just refuse to even acknowledge it.

NOT USING ANY, of the EXISTING regulations !
Their has not been ANY, 'Gun-Banner" that can.

'Street' Drugs, 190 Americans a DAY, die.
Making them Illegal is a great way to Stop, Illegal Drugs.

"Among the more than 70,200 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2017, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs "

Gee, how's that, 'war on Drugs' going.

"In one year, drug overdoses killed more Americans than the entire Vietnam War did"
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/6/15743986/opioid-epidemic-ove...

(and that is a very strongly LEFT/LIBERAL source)

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T And T Garage Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 9839	Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Reply #79 - 08/07/19 at 08:17:15 WebsterMark wrote on 08/07/19 at 07:26:44: You said absolutely nothing of value. Someone else take this on please, preferably someone with a brain. You know mark, put downs are a sure sign of failure. I made my counterpoint and you have nothing but put-downs. That's fine by me.
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WebsterMark

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #80 - 08/07/19 at 08:45:10

You know mark, put downs are a sure sign of failure.

I made my counterpoint and you have nothing but put-downs.

No, they're a sign in this case who I'm dealing with. You said nothing of value. We could use drones now and we're not. The Bundy standoff was from a very few people and the fact you've even heard of it proves my point. Imagine that situation but with 5000 people with guns?

One of the other great arguments I've heard about this is to imagine what if slaves in the early days of the US had been allowed to own firearms. This is a thought experiment so don't get hung up on the details. If slaves had firearms, you think some owner would sell that guys kids? You think they'd stand by and get whipped?

Strawman. Different time, different weapons, different attitudes. Completely non-relatable.

And the straw man line is total BS. Tell me, if slaves had guns, would slavery had continued? Would we have fought a war?

So you see, you said nothing of value.

Think about this. If the government turned on us, what would happen. They're not gonna position a strike force off the coast and burn Houston to the ground. We're not even doing that in the Middle East today, you think we're gonna do that to the US mainland? We couldn't even defeat Vietnam because we fought with one hand behind our back.

As long as our citizenry has weapons, the worse case scenario can't happen.

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T And T Garage

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #81 - 08/07/19 at 09:00:54

WebsterMark wrote on 08/07/19 at 08:45:10:

You know mark, put downs are a sure sign of failure.

I made my counterpoint and you have nothing but put-downs.

No, they're a sign in this case who I'm dealing with. You said nothing of value. We could use drones now and we're not.

I know - like I said, there's money to be made in a ground war. if you think it's about "democracy", well, that's naive.

The Bundy standoff was from a very few people and the fact you've even heard of it proves my point. Imagine that situation but with 5000 people with guns?

Imagine 50,000 or 500,000! You can imagine all day, but it doesn't make it true. bundy's militia is about as organized as you're going to get. That's saying quite enough....

One of the other great arguments I've heard about this is to imagine what if slaves in the early days of the US had been allowed to own firearms. This is a thought experiment so don't get hung up on the details. If slaves had firearms, you think some owner would sell that guys kids? You think they'd stand by and get whipped?

Strawman. Different time, different weapons, different attitudes. Completely non-relatable.

And the straw man line is total BS. Tell me, if slaves had guns, would slavery had continued? Would we have fought a war?

Who knows - but we don't live in that era. At that time in our history, slaves owning guns was a non-issue. There's no way in hell they could have ever owned a gun. Maybe they'd have access to a few, but there's no possible way they could organize.

Hey, if the dinosaurs had access to spaceships, then maybe they could have moved the asteroid out of the path of the earth, right?

Same thing.

So you see, you said nothing of value.

Think about this. If the government turned on us, what would happen. They're not gonna position a strike force off the coast and burn Houston to the ground. We're not even doing that in the Middle East today, you think we're gonna do that to the US mainland? We couldn't even defeat Vietnam because we fought with one hand behind our back.

Think about how silly your question is - "If the government turned on us?". That's hilarious. What would the government gain by turning on its citizens? Seriously?

The fact is, if anyone is going to "turn on us", it's going to be the haliburtons, waltons and kochs of the world. You should be worried about the oligarchy, not the big bad gubment....

As long as our citizenry has weapons, the worse case scenario can't happen.

LOL - it's got nothing to do with the "citizen's weaponry". But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night.

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #82 - 08/07/19 at 09:08:55

Imagine 50,000 or 500,000! You can imagine all day, but it doesn't make it true. bundy's militia is about as organized as you're going to get. That's saying quite enough....
$hit like this is what I'm talking about. You're telling me if the US government tried to take over, all you're gonna get is a couple Bundy type responses?! Hardly.

Who knows - but we don't live in that era. At that time in our history, slaves owning guns was a non-issue. There's no way in hell they could have ever owned a gun. Maybe they'd have access to a few, but there's no possible way they could organize.

Hey, if the dinosaurs had access to spaceships, then maybe they could have moved the asteroid out of the path of the earth, right?

Same thing.
It's like I'm dealing with a child who can't read or imagine.

Think about how silly your question is - "If the government turned on us?". That's hilarious. What would the government gain by turning on its citizens? Seriously? You mean like what happened that began this country? Did you go to school? Governments turn against their citizens from time to time, violently. Do you not know that?

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T And T Garage

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #83 - 08/07/19 at 09:27:12

WebsterMark wrote on 08/07/19 at 09:08:55:

Imagine 50,000 or 500,000! You can imagine all day, but it doesn't make it true. bundy's militia is about as organized as you're going to get. That's saying quite enough....
$hit like this is what I'm talking about. You're telling me if the US government tried to take over, all you're gonna get is a couple Bundy type responses?! Hardly.

And you're so sure about it being different how? Do you have your hand on the pulse of the militia movement in the entire country?

I myself am basing it on the history of the country.

You know, the millions who march, protest, actively get involved in government. How many times has the military stepped in to silence them? Did you pay any attention the the women's march, for example?

Yet for some reason, you think that there's some kind of threat from our own government? Seriously?

Who knows - but we don't live in that era. At that time in our history, slaves owning guns was a non-issue. There's no way in hell they could have ever owned a gun. Maybe they'd have access to a few, but there's no possible way they could organize.

Hey, if the dinosaurs had access to spaceships, then maybe they could have moved the asteroid out of the path of the earth, right?

Same thing.

It's like I'm dealing with a child who can't read or imagine.

mark - did you ever stop to think why there wasn't a slave uprising? Yeah, "what ifs" are fun, but they're just imagination - nothing more. This is the real world, not Hollywood.

Think about how silly your question is - "If the government turned on us?". That's hilarious. What would the government gain by turning on its citizens? Seriously? You mean like what happened that began this country? Did you go to school? Governments turn against their citizens from time to time, violently. Do you not know that?

LOL - this is 2019 in case you forgot. Oh, and this the United States, not Afghanistan or some third world country.

You seem to live in some alternate reality where the government's looking to destroy its populace for some nefarious reason.

The sad part is - they need us. Without us, there is no GDP...

Well, until the robots take over.... Grin

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #84 - 08/07/19 at 09:28:08

WebsterMark wrote on 08/07/19 at 09:08:55:

You're telling me if the US government tried to take over, all you're gonna get is a couple Bundy type responses?! Hardly.

I don't want to alarm you but,... the US government is in power now...
How do they "take over" when they're already in charge?...

If Trump tried to stay in office after losing the election,(as he has hinted)... the military would escort him out.
That military is us.
They are not some foreign entity,.. they are our family members.

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WebsterMark

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #85 - 08/07/19 at 09:40:48

Serowbot wrote on 08/07/19 at 09:28:08:

WebsterMark wrote on 08/07/19 at 09:08:55:

You're telling me if the US government tried to take over, all you're gonna get is a couple Bundy type responses?! Hardly.

I don't want to alarm you but,... the US government is in power now...
How do they "take over" when they're already in charge?...
Hope this is one of your attempts at humor.....

If Trump tried to stay in office after losing the election,(as he has hinted)... the military would escort him out.
Oh Jesus H Christ..... that's absolute BS to even say that....
That military is us.
They are not some foreign entity,.. they are our family members.

Yea, that's what they thought in the colonies.... One recent one was in Thailand, wasn't it? Not sure.
It happens. Gradually. Government's consolidate power, restrict weapon ownership.

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MnSpring

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #86 - 08/07/19 at 09:55:34

T And T Garage wrote on 08/07/19 at 05:29:43:

What we want are stricter gun laws at the federal level.

Again, exactly what are they ?
(No repeating what IS ALREADY Law)

Or should everyone do as Eric Holder did, under Obama's direction,
which was SUSPEND some Federal LAWS,
by threatening FFL dealers in 4 States.
So Guns could Flow UN-hindered to the Drug Cartel.

As to: ‘no one wants to take all your guns’,
Just 80% of them !
And the rest, so restricted, they may only be in a Museum.
Then, that Museum which has the guns,
will of course be,
Racist !
Put a frog in a pan of cold water, and S L O W L Y raise the heat.

One of the reasons there are so many guns on my city's west side is because the laws of the states that border us are laughable.
You keep blaming someone else, for Ill's/Chicago's problems.
Time after time, always blaming someone else.
Just for your notes. A person from IL, has to follow the SAME rules/laws, as someone from Wisc, MT, AZ, FL, etc.

(Well unless they buy out of a trunk in a dark alley LOL)

BTY tt, who is, 'WE', as in.'What we want'
If the, 'WE' are Not members here, like the, 'Gun-Nuts'.
And they are NO, members here that describe themselves as Ultra Liberal, Fairy Dust Sprinklers.

Then posting, 'UL-FDS', about a political person, like AOC/BS, and media talking heads, (Who are Not members here), is perfectly all RIGHT !

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #87 - 08/07/19 at 09:57:34

Are we defending our guns or ourselves?...
Freedom and guns are not synonymous.
If guns define you,.. you need help...

Most free, democratic, countries don't have guns in private hands.
Places like, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc.. do...

Do you know...
Somalia Leader Renounces U.S. Citizenship Amid Trump’s Rhetoric
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/somalia-president-to-give-up-his-american-c...

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MnSpring

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #88 - 08/07/19 at 10:19:34

Serowbot wrote on 08/07/19 at 09:57:34:

Freedom and guns are not synonymous.

Without Guns, their is no way to protect Freedom.

Most free, democratic, countries don't have guns in private hands.
Places like, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc.. do...

Those Countries are Not free.
and the word democratic applies only if one voted for the person they are told to vote for.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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WebsterMark

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Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton
Reply #89 - 08/07/19 at 10:23:02

Freedom and guns are not synonymous.
If guns define you,.. you need help...

Actually, I think freedom and guns are in fact synonymous. There will always be violent people who need to be controlled with violence. That's an unescapable fact.

Guns don't define me, I don't know who that applies to, certainly not these shooters. They are defined by mental illness, despair, a sense of hopelessness.

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