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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Politics, Religion (Tall Table) >> At Least 9 Dead In Dayton /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1564930702 Message started by T And T Garage on 08/04/19 at 07:58:22 |
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Title: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/04/19 at 07:58:22 So... how many more have to die, hmm? At least 9 dead, 26 injured in mass shooting in downtown Dayton, Ohio In a second mass shooting in less than 14 hours, at least nine people are dead and more than two dozen were wounded early on Sunday after someone opened fire in downtown Dayton, Ohio, according to police. The suspected shooter was shot and killed by responding officers "in less than a minute" after opening fire, Mayor Nan Whaley said at a Sunday morning press conference. Police said they were only aware of one shooter. http://www.yahoo.com/gma/active-shooter-incident-being-investigated-dayton-ohio-police-075400231--abc-news-topstories.html Please... please tell us all how "good guys with guns" could have stopped this? Fukc that ideology. Fukc the nra. Fukc the gun nuts. But please, conservatives, tell us all how important it is to not touch the Second Amendment and basically not have any restrictions on guns whatsoever. Let's not introduce any new federal laws on guns either.... SMFH |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/04/19 at 08:03:18 "This is the price we pay for freedom" ::) That price is watching other people die and other families morn. It all changes when it's you or yours. One of you 2nd amendment supporters here, tell me,... you are willing to pay the price of losing your child for your guns. Any takers?... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by pg on 08/04/19 at 08:30:29 4F594E534B5E53483C0 wrote:
It was my relatives when the communists slaughtered eastern europe. They had no means to defend themselves...... Best regards, |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/04/19 at 08:34:19 6770767A7565170 wrote:
It was my relatives when the communists slaughtered eastern europe. They had no means to defend themselves...... Oh you knew them? They were a part of your life? You had dinner with them and talked with them? Best regards, [/quote] |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/04/19 at 08:36:42 I've lost family to war too... ...but not in Walmart.... yet. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by pg on 08/04/19 at 09:53:35 3127302D35202D36420 wrote:
Was it by the hands of their own government? Best regards |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by pg on 08/04/19 at 09:55:59 534D42434E534855270 wrote:
It was my relatives when the communists slaughtered eastern europe. They had no means to defend themselves...... Oh you knew them? They were a part of your life? You had dinner with them and talked with them? Best regards, [/quote] [/quote] That is a truly tasteless post, yet I'm not surprised. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/04/19 at 09:59:19 Oh,.. you're under the delusion that you can shoot your way out of the US government... We've seen this movie before... You die... ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/04/19 at 10:21:26 2631373B3424560 wrote:
It was my relatives when the communists slaughtered eastern europe. They had no means to defend themselves...... Oh you knew them? They were a part of your life? You had dinner with them and talked with them? Best regards, [/quote] [/quote] That is a truly tasteless post, yet I'm not surprised. Best regards, [/quote] Not sure how that's tasteless - it's a simple question. Were you close to them, or even know them? I had 2 great uncles die in WWI, my grandfather died in a head-on collision with a drunk driver in the 50's. My father died when I was 4. These were family members that I never knew. Close in relation, but (even in the case of my father) had zero effect on my overall life. So, my question is legitimate. If these murdered relatives were close to you and part of your life, then fine. If they were your ancestors - then it matters as much as a stranger with the same fate. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/04/19 at 11:05:26 2D3B2C31293C312A5E0 wrote:
So , you know you're outmatched, so, you think the answer is Give up what weapons you HAVE? You do realize that the army that defeated the British and GAVE us a Democratic Republic, and included in the founding documents a statement that would Guarantee US the right to arms in order to PRESERVE what THEY gave us, right? You're up to speed on the fact that they weren't even the overwhelming majority of the citizenry AND were fighting THE most powerful army in the world, and yet, they won. Look at world history. Look at where absolute tyranny has been. Lots of armed people there, right? You all pretend that GOVERNMENT is filled with good people, except for those who you hate. People are good, right? But you don't trust ME to be armed. Yet you own GUNS!! WTF, over? Why are proponents of socialism Frikken RICH? How is it the bleeding heart lefties who don't mind watching Americans in poverty, want free stuff for illegals, and demand I pay for it, while they live like royalty and absolutely Do NOT use THEIR millions to others up. Screw that. But you lefties keep pretending you're goofy enough to actually believe what you say. Look at history. You can vote your way Into socialism But you're gonna Hafta Shoot your way OUT. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/04/19 at 11:31:21 You think you know history?... America's war for Independence was little more than sidebar to the ages old war between England and France. The French were coaxed into supporting you in the hopes of weakening England. Unfortunately, the plan backfired and France went in to financial ruin, which then led to the French Revolution and the end of the monarchy. George Washington spent most of his time in retreat or losing. France saved you. You owe your independence to the French. Think about that next time you order "freedom fries"... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/04/19 at 11:45:16 3422352830252833470 wrote:
I think it's pretty obvious, but I have to interject here Sero and jog. This is 2019!!! There are weapons at the disposal of every single modern country that could wipe out any ground threat that a "well regulated militia" could ever mount. To think that you have a snowball's chance in hell at any "uprising" against any modern army is not just folly, it's hilarious. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/04/19 at 11:51:23 Ain't that the truth... ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by thumperclone on 08/04/19 at 12:37:41 white nationalist terrorists are empowered by trumps nexus of hate any who support him are adding fuel to the fire |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by pg on 08/04/19 at 12:43:55 534F524A574255444B484942270 wrote:
Yeah, yeah, get a new line. The guy from El Paso also wanted national healthcare and universal basic income. The guy in Ohio hated religion and worshiped Satan. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/04/19 at 13:30:04 It is SO clear, with 3,200 deaths a day. Something just HAS to be done. You know, ANYBODY, that is absolutely ANYBODY, can buy a Car or Truck or MC. No Age limit, No Citizen limit, No mental acuity check, Nothing Nada, ANYBODY, can buy a Car/Truck/Mis. The paltry ‘requirements’ for driving a Car/etc on public property, are JUST NOT ENOUGH. First, EVERYBODY that drives something Needs to have the device that they blow into, to start that unit. Those are already made, used, perfected, so would be no problem to make, EVERYONE, that drives do that. Next, Register ALL Cars/Trucks/Etc. Really Register them, Keep a data base of Every MV, and Every name attached to it, regardless of where, or how it is driven/kept/stored/used. Next, make a law that ANYONE, who buys a MV, HAS to be 21 years Old, and a US Citizen. And Has to have a Valid Driving License, which shall be renewed every year, by taking a Written/Driving/Mental Acuity/Eye/Ear tests. As well as having a valid, Insurance certificate, which is paid in full for at least 6 months. Then 2 weeks before it lapses, a notice is sent out to that person, because his/her name address is on record, that they must re-new, and pay for, that insurance policy for another 6 months. If they don’t, that MV is taken away. As well as the above requirements. A person buying a MV Must submit a affidavit, from a licensed psychologist that they are not mentally deranged. Or are a member of a, ‘extreme’ political group. Determination to be made by a group of, ‘concerned’ citizens. Three Thousand two hundred Plus, Of DEATHS a DAY, just HAS TO BE STOPPED. (NOTE: Just for the UL/FDS’s, it is estimated, 260 Million Cars/Trucks/Etc in America, and 393 Million Guns, (NOT owned by the Military) |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/04/19 at 13:49:16 Global stats... Domestic sarcasm... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/04/19 at 13:55:40 3A242B2A273A213C4E0 wrote:
Gee I, (Self admitted several times) am A ‘Gun Nut’. But, again, YOU, can do whatever, YOU, want to. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by thumperclone on 08/04/19 at 14:02:33 293E38343B2B590 wrote:
Yeah, yeah, get a new line. The guy from El Paso also wanted national healthcare and universal basic income. The guy in Ohio hated religion and worshiped Satan. Best regards,[/quote] I found a festered scab?? or truth |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by pg on 08/04/19 at 17:13:25 435F425A475245545B585952370 wrote:
Yeah, yeah, get a new line. The guy from El Paso also wanted national healthcare and universal basic income. The guy in Ohio hated religion and worshiped Satan. Best regards,[/quote] I found a festered scab?? or truth[/quote] It appears the guy in EP was not a registered voter and a white supremacist who wanted universal healthcare for all & universal basic income. That is from his manifesto. The guy in Ohio was a registered democrat and satan worshiper. If you do a few searches you will likely find the same info. Best regards, |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/05/19 at 08:20:50 082B1635372C2B22450 wrote:
Gee I, (Self admitted several times) am A ‘Gun Nut’. But, again, YOU, can do whatever, YOU, want to. [/quote] I think the gun nut ideology is fukced up. Are you going to sit there and say that you don't think that my idology is fukced up from your perspective? No, you're not. I can tell you this - my ideology doesn't get people killed. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/05/19 at 08:23:39 , you're not. I can tell you this - my ideology doesn't get people killed. History proves you don't know what you are talking about. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/05/19 at 08:32:22 7C6365627F7849794971636F24160 wrote:
Really? How so? Elaborate, jog. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/05/19 at 10:41:01 382721263B3C0D3D0D35272B60520 wrote:
9 dead and 27 injured in 32 seconds... Good guys with guns means bad guys have access to guns. The wild wild west was never this wild... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/05/19 at 13:14:46 6472657860757863170 wrote:
Are you staying inside, during the, "Excessive Heat Warning" ? MV's in the USA:263,765,695 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita Number of Deaths per DAY by MV's in the USA: 3,287 deaths a day. https://www.asirt.org/safe-travel/road-safety-facts/ Number of guns, (Not including the military) in the USA: 393,347,000 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_ownership Don't know what you are referring to when you say: "Global stats." As the stats listed on:http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1564930702/15#15 Are numbers in the USA. Also still waiting for a explanation of how, Punishing everyone that owns/will own/use/etc a firearm, will stop a total nut case from using one. Oh, we need BIG TIME, restrictions/regulations, on the purchase of the 20lb gas cylinder, sold at c-stores, and mart-marts. Time to have a buyer fill out a extensive 6 page form, a background check, and a waiting period, before they can buy one. Just running out, 1/2 way through cooking on the grill is NOT a reason. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/05/19 at 13:58:57 3,200 deaths per day... is a world wide stat. And you are relating global car deaths to domestic gun deaths. Cars get us to work. Guns kill things. Transportation is a necessary part of a functioning society. Even so... Cars are licensed, registered, inspected, insured, require a license to operate, your driving is monitored by police, speed is regulated, direction of travel, signaling intention, safety equipment. Your license can be revoked or suspended, you can be fined or jailed, the vehicle can be impounded. We're discussing US shootings and gun law. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/05/19 at 15:03:15 495F48554D58554E3A0 wrote:
Every one of those, one could put the word, 'Sometimes' in front of. The absolute Fact Is: ANYBODY, that is absolutely ANYBODY, can buy a Car or Truck or MC. No Age limit, No Citizen limit, No License requirement. No mental acuity check, Nothing Nada, ANYBODY, can buy a Car/Truck/Mis. Their MUST be more and better regulations ! Transportation is a necessary part of a functioning society. Well of course. No one is stating you cannot walk, or use a bicycle, or a horse and buggy. After all no cars/etc were around during the writing of the Constitution. Use what they used at that time. It is perfectly all Right ! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/05/19 at 15:16:06 Without cars we would fall back to an agricultural society. Without guns,... we wouldn't get shot so much. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/05/19 at 20:07:47 Without cars we would fall back to an agricultural society. Without guns,... we wouldn't get shot so much. This is very much so the situation. Too many people attempt to equate on a 1 to 1 ratio firearm usage to phone, or vehicle usage, and also equate fatality per minute ratio. Once pro-gun stops comparing cars and phones to guns they will make enough progress to present a compelling argument that is actually applicable to the US Constitution. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by verslagen1 on 08/06/19 at 07:33:38 4E6E6C64796E0B0 wrote:
I agree with you for the most part, not many people use their car to kill people purposely... but they do in rare occasions. So, maybe we should draw parallels where they exist. We don't allow teenagers to drive trucks. Maybe they shouldn't have access to military rounds either. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/06/19 at 10:57:31 I said regarding the El Paso shooter if you hadn't read thd writings he left behind, you had no f'ing business commenting on it. Now I'll say this, read the link below before saying anything else about Dayon. https://medium.com/@_adeliajohnson_/my-ex-boyfriend-was-the-dayton-shooter-2b7f2d792b68 |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/19 at 11:13:55 404 We couldn’t find this page. If you hit the upper left button and put the URL between those brackets and be careful to not leave a space between a bracket and the URL, your link will work. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/19 at 11:14:59 https://medium.com/@_adeliajohnson_/my-ex-boyfriend-was-the-dayton-shooter-2b7f2d792b68 FIFY |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/06/19 at 11:26:35 003235242332251A36253C570 wrote:
Sad that anyone give credence to anything that maniac wrote as a manifesto. As to Dayton - yep, he was a crazy left-winger. But the politics are secondary - as I listed before. This is about mass shootings and the availability of assault weapons. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/06/19 at 12:26:23 There are millions and millions of "assault " weapons. 99.99999999% will never be used in the commission of a crime. What are you gonna do, confiscate all of them? What qualifies as an assault weapon? Here's an idea, expand your knowledge base. Study all angles and not just the partisan sound bites. Did you read what the El Paso guy left? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/06/19 at 12:38:13 6B595E4F48594E715D4E573C0 wrote:
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/06/19 at 13:13:01 417374656273645B77647D160 wrote:
Any definition will be vociferously disputed by gun people, but I would say,... ...any weapon with a magazine capacity over 10 rounds. Let the outrage begin... ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/06/19 at 13:15:15 4B555A5B564B504D3F0 wrote:
[/quote] Read it and find out. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/06/19 at 13:24:10 360403121504132C00130A610 wrote:
Nope. No gonna waste my time. I'm not a psychologist, nor any kind of behavioral specialist. Same way I've never ready anything from charles manson, alex jones, david duke, adolf hitler or any other whack job. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/06/19 at 13:25:16 4F594E534B5E53483C0 wrote:
Any definition will be vociferously disputed by gun people, but I would say,... ...any weapon with a magazine capacity over 10 rounds. Let the outrage begin... ;D[/quote] Hey Sero, now maybe I should post about which cars and motorcycles should be outlawed... right? :D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by verslagen1 on 08/06/19 at 13:34:05 1107100D15000D16620 wrote:
Any definition will be vociferously disputed by gun people, but I would say,... ...any weapon with a magazine capacity over 10 rounds. Let the outrage begin... ;D[/quote] At least you didn't say any gun that looks scary to you. ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/06/19 at 13:34:50 Where is the Dayton shooters crazy left-wing manifesto?... ...didn't have one Was he motivated by insane left-wing conspiracy theories?... ...there are none Was Obama telling us we were being invaded by white people? ...no The Dayton shooter was bi-polar and unstable,... and wasn't getting laid. Unrelated to his politics. The El Paso shooter was following Trump's implied directive. America is being taken over, immigrants are bad people, they are rapists and murderers, they should go back where they came from, we are all full and don't have room for them, we're being invaded, we have to stop them. Don't tell me 3 years of that kind of rhetoric doesn't register. The facts are, people are more racially divided than ever,... white supremacist groups are flourishing and emboldened,... mass shooters are 2 to 1 racially motivated,... white supremacist universally support Trump and think he supports them. That's not my TDS opinion,... US intelligence says that, and the leaders of the free world say that. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/06/19 at 13:36:03 5A495E5F404D4B49421D2C0 wrote:
Any definition will be vociferously disputed by gun people, but I would say,... ...any weapon with a magazine capacity over 10 rounds. Let the outrage begin... ;D[/quote] At least you didn't say any gun that looks scary to you. ;D[/quote] Oh, yeah... that too... ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/06/19 at 13:39:36 The El Paso shooter was following Trump's implied directive. That's monumental bull$hit. Implied directive? Ypu think Trump secretly wanted a guy to randomly shoot people including children? You really think that? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/06/19 at 13:42:09 203E31303D203B26540 wrote:
Nope. No gonna waste my time. I'm not a psychologist, nor any kind of behavioral specialist. Same way I've never ready anything from charles manson, alex jones, david duke, adolf hitler or any other whack job.[/quote] Okay then don't say a f'ing word about him cause you are two narrow minded to challenge yourself. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by verslagen1 on 08/06/19 at 13:43:27 7E687F627A6F62790D0 wrote:
He was really pissed off he missed all the kavanaugh rape parties. Oh wait that's a conspiracy theory, didn't happen. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/06/19 at 13:45:56 What part of this isn't telling a disturbed white supremacist to take action?... Trump might as well have put the gun in his hands. Quote:
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/06/19 at 14:07:29 did Trump actually say those exact words you posted in bold? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/06/19 at 14:12:17 605255444352457A56455C370 wrote:
Nope. No gonna waste my time. I'm not a psychologist, nor any kind of behavioral specialist. Same way I've never ready anything from charles manson, alex jones, david duke, adolf hitler or any other whack job.[/quote] Okay then don't say a f'ing word about him cause you are two narrow minded to challenge yourself. [/quote] No, I can say pretty much anything I want. You gonna defend him? That's on you. He is nothing but a maniac. Period. If you give his suicide note creedence, that's makes you gullible, not knowledgeable. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/06/19 at 14:13:09 6B595E4F48594E715D4E573C0 wrote:
The problem is - trump doesn't think before he speaks. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/06/19 at 14:25:38 0F3D3A2B2C3D2A15392A33580 wrote:
Close enough,... I didn't go looking for exact quotes,.. (which is why it's not in quotes). Don't nit-pick... you know what he said. I'm even seeing Fox News commenters point out his racist tropes. He's been pushing them since his first campaign announcement. You know it... and I know you know it. ...and you know I know you know it... ;D This is the play he made to get elected. This is the nest he's made for his legacy. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/06/19 at 14:26:35 Post deleted Serow |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/06/19 at 14:28:08 Close enough,... I didn't go looking for exact quotes,.. (which is why it's not in quotes). Don't nit-pick... you know what he said. I do know what he said and it wasn't remotely close to that. In fact, its closer to what you've said about conservatives and Christians. Again, you've got a serious problem with the truth. Now I know why you defending that lying fxxx . Something about birds of a feather.... Web,... get yourself together This is you going overboard,.. not Tn'T.. Man up or leave. Serow |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/06/19 at 14:49:38 4C5F4849565B5D5F540B3A0 wrote:
That would depend greatly on the definition. If it were what rounds, 'could the military use', it would be 100% of all ammo. If it were what rounds,'the military has used', it would be about 70% of the current rounds. It it were what rounds, 'the military currently uses'. (and subset would how long is currently) it would be about 50% of rounds. And that 50% of those rounds, would be 80+%, of the rounds commonly used. Including .22 Long Rifle, .38 Spc, 9mm,.357 mag, .40 S&W, .45ACP, etc/etc/etc/etc/etc/etc/etc/ I see the same thing happening as when Clinton 'banned' the LOOKS of a firearm. And the, 'ban', would have BANNED, ALL semi-auto firearms. Then it was re-written AFTER, the NRA pointed out what it would do. (the re-write that almost snuck through), would have BANNED, A Side by Side, or a Over & Under shotgun, which had ONE trigger. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/06/19 at 14:52:14 160807060B160D10620 wrote:
Rather clear to anybody that reads here. You most certainly do ! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/06/19 at 15:12:50 You can say pretty much anything you want as well, Mn... Just no personal insults,... and no ;) you know "holster" to AOC,,,('cause we both have a crush on her),,, ;D Web has lost his cool,... and is flinging "f" words... Not to be tolerated... Serow |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/06/19 at 15:13:54 Yea, I took it off, and it has two bolts. I'll just put one bolt back, after all, it's, Close enough ! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by verslagen1 on 08/06/19 at 15:23:09 74576A494B50575E390 wrote:
That would depend greatly on the definition. [/quote] I'm not an expert, so you define it. Mostly, I meant military or NATO rifle rounds. The kind used in those scary guns. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/06/19 at 15:29:45 Post deleted Web,.. you called me the "f" word again. Serow |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/06/19 at 16:12:09 2C3F2829363B3D3F346B5A0 wrote:
Two common and often talked about ones. One is the 5.56x45mm, which is also known as the .223 Rem. Developed for a new Armalite rifle in 1957. Which is basically a longer .222 Rem. and the power of the .222 Rem Mag. Currently just about every major manufacture, (and some minor ones), make a bolt action for the .223 Rem (aka 5.56x45), wood stocked semi-autos, single shots, both rifle and pistol, (Rem even made a Pump), and they out number the Military, ‘scary’ guns. NOTE: If you have a ’tight’ custom chamber in your civilian firearm. It would be best to Not use military rounds designated as 5.56x45mm The military rounds, depending on where they were made, have more of a +/- tolerance, than the .223 Rem rounds. (Which are made by many companies, including Remington) The general rule is, use, .223R or 5.56x45mm in a Semi-Auto, And only .223R, in all others The other is the 7.62x39mm. This round was used in the SKS semi-auto, (China), and adopted in Russia in 1943 for the new AK-47. Their are about 1/4 of the civilian guns made for that round, (bolt, SS, Semi-auto, pistol), than the .223R. Perhaps it is the lack of accuracy, because it is not a, .308 diameter bullet. it uses a .311 dia bullet. And a whole lot of people tried to make the .308 work. Banning either of those rounds, would be banning them for the use of self protection, sporting, (Many competitions use those rounds) and Hunting. A thought, Punish the DFI that uses that tool, not the tool, and those that use it correctly. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/06/19 at 16:16:51 This "bla diddy blaa' is why I chose a magazine of 10 rounds or less... The definition of "assault rifle" is,.. "Looks scary"... 10 rounds is definitive... If you need more than 10 rounds for home defense or hunting,... ...hang it up... ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/06/19 at 16:29:37 2F392E332B3E33285C0 wrote:
Some want more than 10, for hunting, some want more than 10 for self defense, Many, NEED, more than 10 for competition. What was that BS said: I like something you MUST do it. I don't like something, you can, NOT, do it. (Note that was not a direct quote, it was just, close enough) |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/06/19 at 17:03:35 I want and need AOC to come home with me... That don't mean I'm gonna' get it.. ;D Competition can be done with a 10 round clip... in fact,.. reload is part of many competitions. Hunter's or homeowner's that "want" more than 10 rounds are either incompetent or paranoid... PS... who's BS?... :-? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/06/19 at 18:06:31 1E2C2B3A3D2C3B04283B22490 wrote:
You lied, again. Getting to be a habit with you. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/19 at 18:36:18 4157405D45505D46320 wrote:
Defense against multiple people? You don't have a clue. Aaaaand, the SECOND AMENDMENT isn't just about hunting, which is not mentioned in the Constitution, because IT'S JUST TAKEN FOR GRANTED, as is hunting, because THAT'S HOW PEOPLE FED THEMSELVES, no, for the last FUKKING Time The second amendment is about the RIGHT of the PEOPLE to Keep and Bear arms in order to cast off a Tyrannical government. Read it until your God dammed eyes bleed. Remember it. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/19 at 19:11:28 Well, it's obvious then.. The only reasonable solution is FUKKING SURRENDER? Since snowflakes have declared it's impossible to win Give Up! Screw That And Screw you. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/06/19 at 19:57:56 "The only reasonable solution is FUKKING SURRENDER?" I wouldn't. But I do accept that an aircraft carrier strike group will make short work of my personal stash of weapons and ammo. Its called reality. In reality a battle between civilian and the US military would be exceptionally one-sided. That's not even taking into consideration the CDC and all the biological weaponization. Like I said before, some tech guys would do more damage these days than anyone's stash of food, guns and ammo. Times have changed, fight the battle you can win. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/06/19 at 20:19:13 6141434B5641240 wrote:
Well put once again Eegore. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/06/19 at 20:30:02 62417C5F5D4641482F0 wrote:
Rather clear to anybody that reads here. You most certainly do ! [/quote] Yeah, why bother with context, right mn? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/19 at 22:22:29 Let's go full on stupid. Of COURSE tanks and missiles and heavy artillery wipe out targets, like, say, everything we destroyed in Libya. I'm just tired of the refrain that The people can't hope to cast off a Tyrannical government SO We have no rational justification for continuing to own weapons. If that's not saying Surrender WTF IS it? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/07/19 at 05:29:43 687771766B6C5D6D5D65777B30020 wrote:
jog - get this straight once and for all.... No one on here - and most every lib out there - wants to ban all guns. What we want are stricter gun laws at the federal level. One of the reasons there are so many guns on my city's west side is because the laws of the states that border us are laughable. In Wisconsin, all you need is a face (practically). So you can calm down - no one wants to take all your guns. Sheesh... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 05:30:25 465857565B465D40320 wrote:
Well put once again Eegore.[/quote] This is a topic that's been brought up before and our leftist friends don't have much of a response. And apparently neither does Eegore. You mention a civilian military would have no chance against a strike group. Then why are we still screwing around in Afghanistan? Why are we just the latest country to flail helplessly in that place? Why is our war on terror going on and on.....decades. Why is Israel still plagued by the Palestinians throwing rocks or blowing up one pizza parlor at a time? Blackhawk Down was on TV the other day. Why did we lose a single solider in that $hithole? All for the same reason. We don't use our full force. Clinton refused orders (and correctly so) for gun ships in the Mogadishu situation. Israel could end the Palestinians tomorrow if they wanted to. We could be done with this war on terror by the weekend if we wanted to. But none of those things are going to happen. The simple fact is a full on attack on US citizens by a US military force would result in the same thing. Set aside for a moment the attacking force would be made up of American boys some of who would have serious hesitation, the Afghanistan or War on Terror situation would be duplicated. If you're not going to carpet bomb the neighborhood and then go pick up the pieces, you've got to one house at a time. There are places in Southern Missouri I know where the boys there would wage quite a fight. I dare you to go up to Montana and send in a force. Can you say "Red Dawn"! One of the other great arguments I've heard about this is to imagine what if slaves in the early days of the US had been allowed to own firearms. This is a thought experiment so don't get hung up on the details. If slaves had firearms, you think some owner would sell that guys kids? You think they'd stand by and get whipped? The US Government is not be able to turn its military against its citizens in a manner that preserves the nation. And that is why we have a 2nd Amendment. To repel our own military as an invading force. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/07/19 at 05:42:42 112324353223340B27342D460 wrote:
Well put once again Eegore.[/quote] This is a topic that's been brought up before and our leftist friends don't have much of a response. And apparently neither does Eegore. You mention a civilian military would have no chance against a strike group. Yeh, I'd say that's pretty accurate. Then why are we still screwing around in Afghanistan? Why are we just the latest country to flail helplessly in that place? Why is our war on terror going on and on.....decades. Money. Government contractors. "War on terror" propaganda. Take your pick. It's got nothing to do with "democracy". Why is Israel still plagued by the Palestinians throwing rocks or blowing up one pizza parlor at a time? Blackhawk Down was on TV the other day. Why did we lose a single solider in that $hithole? See above. All for the same reason. We don't use our full force. Clinton refused orders (and correctly so) for gun ships in the Mogadishu situation. Israel could end the Palestinians tomorrow if they wanted to. We could be done with this war on terror by the weekend if we wanted to. But none of those things are going to happen. The simple fact is a full on attack on US citizens by a US military force would result in the same thing. Set aside for a moment the attacking force would be made up of American boys some of who would have serious hesitation, the Afghanistan or War on Terror situation would be duplicated. If you're not going to carpet bomb the neighborhood and then go pick up the pieces, you've got to one house at a time. There are places in Southern Missouri I know where the boys there would wage quite a fight. I dare you to go up to Montana and send in a force. Can you say "Red Dawn"! Can you say - complete Hollywood bullsh!t? There would be no need for any ground assault. Drones would do the work - but keep it real - this scenario will never happen. Look no further than the bundy's pathetic militia standoff in Montana. One of the other great arguments I've heard about this is to imagine what if slaves in the early days of the US had been allowed to own firearms. This is a thought experiment so don't get hung up on the details. If slaves had firearms, you think some owner would sell that guys kids? You think they'd stand by and get whipped? Strawman. Different time, different weapons, different attitudes. Completely non-relatable. The US Government is not be able to turn its military against its citizens in a manner that preserves the nation. And that is why we have a 2nd Amendment. To repel our own military as an invading force. [/quote] Never. Gonna. Happen. Get over it. Besides, no one (here) wants to ban all guns. Sensible control at the federal level. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/07/19 at 05:53:27 687679787568736E1C0 wrote:
The writings of manson, jones, duke don't provide any information of how some people are bent on destroying America. You should read and understand the book, 'My Struggle', written while the author was in Jail, (for trying to overthrow a Government). The author discovered that 'revolution' was not the answer. Propaganda was the answer, in changing the political climate of a Nation to a Socialist Dictatorship. (The book is better known as, Mein Kampf) So, if you have, never ready anything from adolf hitler, That fully explains why you believe: "I can say pretty much anything I want" |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/07/19 at 05:59:11 64477A595B40474E290 wrote:
The writings of manson, jones, duke don't provide any information of how some people are bent on destroying America. You should read and understand the book, 'My Struggle', written while the author was in Jail, (for trying to overthrow a Government). The author discovered that 'revolution' was not the answer. Propaganda was the answer, in changing the political climate of a Nation to a Socialist Dictatorship. (The book is better known as, Mein Kampf) So, if you have, never ready anything from adolf hitler, That fully explains why you believe: "I can say pretty much anything I want" [/quote] Well, mn - it's hilarious that you try to educate me on anything having to do with literature. You use my quote "I can say pretty much anything I want" completely out of context. You clearly don't understand what that is. So, until you can grasp that, don't even try, m'kay? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/07/19 at 06:12:25 534D42434E534855270 wrote:
Please describe that. NOT USING ANY, of the EXISTING regulations ! Their has not been ANY, 'Gun-Banner" that can. 'Street' Drugs, 190 Americans a DAY, die. Making them Illegal is a great way to Stop, Illegal Drugs. "Among the more than 70,200 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2017, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs " Gee, how's that, 'war on Drugs' going. "In one year, drug overdoses killed more Americans than the entire Vietnam War did" https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/6/15743986/opioid-epidemic-overdose-deaths-2016 (and that is a very strongly LEFT/LIBERAL source) |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 07:26:44 253B343538253E23510 wrote:
Well put once again Eegore.[/quote] This is a topic that's been brought up before and our leftist friends don't have much of a response. And apparently neither does Eegore. You mention a civilian military would have no chance against a strike group. Yeh, I'd say that's pretty accurate. Then why are we still screwing around in Afghanistan? Why are we just the latest country to flail helplessly in that place? Why is our war on terror going on and on.....decades. Money. Government contractors. "War on terror" propaganda. Take your pick. It's got nothing to do with "democracy". Why is Israel still plagued by the Palestinians throwing rocks or blowing up one pizza parlor at a time? Blackhawk Down was on TV the other day. Why did we lose a single solider in that $hithole? See above. All for the same reason. We don't use our full force. Clinton refused orders (and correctly so) for gun ships in the Mogadishu situation. Israel could end the Palestinians tomorrow if they wanted to. We could be done with this war on terror by the weekend if we wanted to. But none of those things are going to happen. The simple fact is a full on attack on US citizens by a US military force would result in the same thing. Set aside for a moment the attacking force would be made up of American boys some of who would have serious hesitation, the Afghanistan or War on Terror situation would be duplicated. If you're not going to carpet bomb the neighborhood and then go pick up the pieces, you've got to one house at a time. There are places in Southern Missouri I know where the boys there would wage quite a fight. I dare you to go up to Montana and send in a force. Can you say "Red Dawn"! Can you say - complete Hollywood bullsh!t? There would be no need for any ground assault. Drones would do the work - but keep it real - this scenario will never happen. Look no further than the bundy's pathetic militia standoff in Montana. One of the other great arguments I've heard about this is to imagine what if slaves in the early days of the US had been allowed to own firearms. This is a thought experiment so don't get hung up on the details. If slaves had firearms, you think some owner would sell that guys kids? You think they'd stand by and get whipped? Strawman. Different time, different weapons, different attitudes. Completely non-relatable. The US Government is not be able to turn its military against its citizens in a manner that preserves the nation. And that is why we have a 2nd Amendment. To repel our own military as an invading force. [/quote] Never. Gonna. Happen. Get over it. Besides, no one (here) wants to ban all guns. Sensible control at the federal level.[/quote] You said absolutely nothing of value. Someone else take this on please, preferably someone with a brain. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/07/19 at 08:00:55 0C2F123133282F26410 wrote:
Putting more drugs on he street will fix that. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/07/19 at 08:14:50 6B487556544F4841260 wrote:
Please describe that. No, why should I waste my time? You know what it is, you just refuse to even acknowledge it. NOT USING ANY, of the EXISTING regulations ! Their has not been ANY, 'Gun-Banner" that can. 'Street' Drugs, 190 Americans a DAY, die. Making them Illegal is a great way to Stop, Illegal Drugs. "Among the more than 70,200 drug overdose deaths estimated in 2017, the sharpest increase occurred among deaths related to fentanyl and fentanyl analogs " Gee, how's that, 'war on Drugs' going. "In one year, drug overdoses killed more Americans than the entire Vietnam War did" https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/6/15743986/opioid-epidemic-overdose-deaths-2016 (and that is a very strongly LEFT/LIBERAL source) [/quote] |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/07/19 at 08:17:15 516364757263744B67746D060 wrote:
You know mark, put downs are a sure sign of failure. I made my counterpoint and you have nothing but put-downs. That's fine by me. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 08:45:10 You know mark, put downs are a sure sign of failure. I made my counterpoint and you have nothing but put-downs. No, they're a sign in this case who I'm dealing with. You said nothing of value. We could use drones now and we're not. The Bundy standoff was from a very few people and the fact you've even heard of it proves my point. Imagine that situation but with 5000 people with guns? One of the other great arguments I've heard about this is to imagine what if slaves in the early days of the US had been allowed to own firearms. This is a thought experiment so don't get hung up on the details. If slaves had firearms, you think some owner would sell that guys kids? You think they'd stand by and get whipped? Strawman. Different time, different weapons, different attitudes. Completely non-relatable. And the straw man line is total BS. Tell me, if slaves had guns, would slavery had continued? Would we have fought a war? So you see, you said nothing of value. Think about this. If the government turned on us, what would happen. They're not gonna position a strike force off the coast and burn Houston to the ground. We're not even doing that in the Middle East today, you think we're gonna do that to the US mainland? We couldn't even defeat Vietnam because we fought with one hand behind our back. As long as our citizenry has weapons, the worse case scenario can't happen. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/07/19 at 09:00:54 6C5E59484F5E49765A49503B0 wrote:
LOL - it's got nothing to do with the "citizen's weaponry". But hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 09:08:55 Imagine 50,000 or 500,000! You can imagine all day, but it doesn't make it true. bundy's militia is about as organized as you're going to get. That's saying quite enough.... $hit like this is what I'm talking about. You're telling me if the US government tried to take over, all you're gonna get is a couple Bundy type responses?! Hardly. Who knows - but we don't live in that era. At that time in our history, slaves owning guns was a non-issue. There's no way in hell they could have ever owned a gun. Maybe they'd have access to a few, but there's no possible way they could organize. Hey, if the dinosaurs had access to spaceships, then maybe they could have moved the asteroid out of the path of the earth, right? Same thing. It's like I'm dealing with a child who can't read or imagine. Think about how silly your question is - "If the government turned on us?". That's hilarious. What would the government gain by turning on its citizens? Seriously? You mean like what happened that began this country? Did you go to school? Governments turn against their citizens from time to time, violently. Do you not know that? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/07/19 at 09:27:12 655750414657407F534059320 wrote:
LOL - this is 2019 in case you forgot. Oh, and this the United States, not Afghanistan or some third world country. You seem to live in some alternate reality where the government's looking to destroy its populace for some nefarious reason. The sad part is - they need us. Without us, there is no GDP... Well, until the robots take over.... ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/07/19 at 09:28:08 7F4D4A5B5C4D5A65495A43280 wrote:
I don't want to alarm you but,... the US government is in power now... How do they "take over" when they're already in charge?... If Trump tried to stay in office after losing the election,(as he has hinted)... the military would escort him out. That military is us. They are not some foreign entity,.. they are our family members. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 09:40:48 6177607D65707D66120 wrote:
I don't want to alarm you but,... the US government is in power now... How do they "take over" when they're already in charge?... Hope this is one of your attempts at humor..... If Trump tried to stay in office after losing the election,(as he has hinted)... the military would escort him out. Oh Jesus H Christ..... that's absolute BS to even say that.... That military is us. They are not some foreign entity,.. they are our family members. [/quote] Yea, that's what they thought in the colonies.... One recent one was in Thailand, wasn't it? Not sure. It happens. Gradually. Government's consolidate power, restrict weapon ownership. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/07/19 at 09:55:34 253B343538253E23510 wrote:
Again, exactly what are they ? (No repeating what IS ALREADY Law) Or should everyone do as Eric Holder did, under Obama's direction, which was SUSPEND some Federal LAWS, by threatening FFL dealers in 4 States. So Guns could Flow UN-hindered to the Drug Cartel. As to: ‘no one wants to take all your guns’, Just 80% of them ! And the rest, so restricted, they may only be in a Museum. Then, that Museum which has the guns, will of course be, Racist ! Put a frog in a pan of cold water, and S L O W L Y raise the heat. One of the reasons there are so many guns on my city's west side is because the laws of the states that border us are laughable. You keep blaming someone else, for Ill's/Chicago's problems. Time after time, always blaming someone else. Just for your notes. A person from IL, has to follow the SAME rules/laws, as someone from Wisc, MT, AZ, FL, etc. (Well unless they buy out of a trunk in a dark alley LOL) BTY tt, who is, 'WE', as in.'What we want' If the, 'WE' are Not members here, like the, 'Gun-Nuts'. And they are NO, members here that describe themselves as Ultra Liberal, Fairy Dust Sprinklers. Then posting, 'UL-FDS', about a political person, like AOC/BS, and media talking heads, (Who are Not members here), is perfectly all RIGHT ! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/07/19 at 09:57:34 Are we defending our guns or ourselves?... Freedom and guns are not synonymous. If guns define you,.. you need help... Most free, democratic, countries don't have guns in private hands. Places like, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc.. do... Do you know... Somalia Leader Renounces U.S. Citizenship Amid Trump’s Rhetoric https://www.marketwatch.com/story/somalia-president-to-give-up-his-american-citizenship-2019-08-01 |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/07/19 at 10:19:34 3523342931242932460 wrote:
Without Guns, their is no way to protect Freedom. Most free, democratic, countries don't have guns in private hands. Places like, Syria, Afghanistan, Somalia, etc.. do... Those Countries are Not free. and the word democratic applies only if one voted for the person they are told to vote for. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 10:23:02 Freedom and guns are not synonymous. If guns define you,.. you need help... Actually, I think freedom and guns are in fact synonymous. There will always be violent people who need to be controlled with violence. That's an unescapable fact. Guns don't define me, I don't know who that applies to, certainly not these shooters. They are defined by mental illness, despair, a sense of hopelessness. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/07/19 at 10:40:49 So England, France, Canada, Germany, Japan, Australia, Scotland, Ireland, Italy, Denmark,... and on and on... are not free countries?... Somebody better tell them. They all think they're just fine,.. ...and much safer than us. With far fewer mass killings. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/07/19 at 11:00:52 073532232435221D31223B500 wrote:
I don't want to alarm you but,... the US government is in power now... How do they "take over" when they're already in charge?... Hope this is one of your attempts at humor..... If Trump tried to stay in office after losing the election,(as he has hinted)... the military would escort him out. Oh Jesus H Christ..... that's absolute BS to even say that.... That military is us. They are not some foreign entity,.. they are our family members. [/quote] Yea, that's what they thought in the colonies.... LOL - this is not the 16th century. smh. One recent one was in Thailand, wasn't it? Not sure. And - this is not Thailand. It happens. Gradually. Government's consolidate power, restrict weapon ownership. [/quote] There's a reason our Constitution is over 230 years, mark. The Bill Of Rights isn't going anywhere. To think otherwise is paranoid. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/07/19 at 11:02:00 1734092A2833343D5A0 wrote:
Again, exactly what are they ? (No repeating what IS ALREADY Law) Or should everyone do as Eric Holder did, under Obama's direction, which was SUSPEND some Federal LAWS, by threatening FFL dealers in 4 States. So Guns could Flow UN-hindered to the Drug Cartel. As to: ‘no one wants to take all your guns’, Just 80% of them ! And the rest, so restricted, they may only be in a Museum. Then, that Museum which has the guns, will of course be, Racist ! Put a frog in a pan of cold water, and S L O W L Y raise the heat. One of the reasons there are so many guns on my city's west side is because the laws of the states that border us are laughable. You keep blaming someone else, for Ill's/Chicago's problems. Time after time, always blaming someone else. Just for your notes. A person from IL, has to follow the SAME rules/laws, as someone from Wisc, MT, AZ, FL, etc. (Well unless they buy out of a trunk in a dark alley LOL) BTY tt, who is, 'WE', as in.'What we want' If the, 'WE' are Not members here, like the, 'Gun-Nuts'. And they are NO, members here that describe themselves as Ultra Liberal, Fairy Dust Sprinklers. Then posting, 'UL-FDS', about a political person, like AOC/BS, and media talking heads, (Who are Not members here), is perfectly all RIGHT ! [/quote] No, I'm sorry mn. I'm not going to have this conversation with you. Nice try. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/07/19 at 11:07:01 And they have less gun violence, just like removing red cars, (less red car accidents). They have just as much, Violence, as before. Only now, no quick way to stop it. But one could call 911, like someone did in Tucson, and what was it Bot, 4 hours, before response ? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/07/19 at 13:17:11 Smallpox. This is an example of a stage one government takeover. It requires a vaccine to immunize, most can not be immunized prior to an event. A stage two implements a version of Smallpox that the current vaccine is "less effective" against. The "I wont go get a vaccine" types die. Quarantine begins. Food shortages occur, water is compromised and a "bottled only" directive is given. Anyone that thinks the big bad Government is going to go around kicking in doors and "taking guns" as an approach to mass murder and citizen control is living in a fantasy world. Comparing us to Afghanistan makes sense to a degree, but the US is not in control of the power, water, air quality etc. in that theatre. There are many more options in home-territory. Bottom line is your guns, and mine, will not stop a Government Takeover. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 14:20:33 Anyone that thinks the big bad Government is going to go around kicking in doors and "taking guns" as an approach to mass murder and citizen control is living in a fantasy world. Comparing us to Afghanistan makes sense to a degree, but the US is not in control of the power, water, air quality etc. in that theatre. There are many more options in home-territory. Bottom line is your guns, and mine, will not stop a Government Takeover. I don't believe anyone said kicking in doors as an approach to mass murder. Government take overs start slow and small until restricting weapon ownership is just another freedom given away. You're wrong Eegore. Our guys will deter an attempted takeover and should one actually begin, the pain will be significant enough I don't believe the American boys forced into the military would have the heart to wipe out fellow Americans. Think this through. Imagine 25 years from now, the socialist train has been running down the tracks all this time. Practically everything we do is regulated or enforced by one government agency or another. President AOC finally decides to enforce the EU laws about electrical usage. There's a mini revolt and protest of sorts. It escalates to a couple hundred thousand marching saying "Hell No, we won't turn off the lights" or something like that. Police (who are now essentially military personnel) are called out to quell the protest. Violence breaks out. People are killed ala Kent State. It escalates. President AOC sends in more troops. More fighting. Finally a group from Montana say "Fxxx this, get out of our state." and they ban together at the border. Wyoming joins, then ND & SD. All of a sudden, we've got a 15,000 armed civilians refusing to follow President AOC's demands. Her government issued solar panels are dumped into the Missouri River in a recreation of the Boston Tea Party. President AOC orders a full on attack. It looks like Afghanistan. Door to door, looking for 'insurgents'. There are shootings, killings. Some homemade bombs.... President AOC is tempted to carpet bomb that fly over country into dust but can't do that. The fighting drags on. Others join in the fight. Pretty soon the army personnel are beginning to say "What the hell are we doing?" That's what the founders envisioned if the government they were establishing began turning against the citizenry much like the way England turned against them. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/07/19 at 14:44:41 President AOC is a smart girl... she just has your electricity turned off. No troops,.. no guns... no fuss, no mess... Pay the fine,.. and get yer' 'lecky back on... Trump thinks violence first. AOC is smarter than that. I suppose your point is a gun can defend against a small, personal, government intrusion... It can't... Time and time again we've seen individuals with die with guns in hand defying the US government. If you don't agree with your government,.. sue... or vote... Guns will just get you dead or in prison. And once again,.. the founders envisioned an invasion by King George to get his territory back. A militia wasn't intended to to crush the union we just created. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/07/19 at 14:45:26 704245545342556A46554C270 wrote:
What a terrible piece of fiction. But it is kinda funny/amusing. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 15:11:44 I suppose your point is a gun can defend against a small, personal, government intrusion... Doing a really good job of that in Afghanistan and in other places where we've got a war on terror going. Tell me, why are we still fighting? How come we can't end these little wars? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 15:12:53 And once again,.. the founders envisioned an invasion by King George to get his territory back. A militia wasn't intended to to crush the union we just created. You really don't know crap about American history, do you? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/07/19 at 15:16:19 Not the one you've been taught. ::) Have you read the Magna Carta?... Your Constitution is based on it. Do you know the French funded your war for independence?... Do you know your founders were traitors?... ...to England. I did get US history at US military base schools in Europe with American textbooks and everything. It is taught in a very nationalistic, myopic, way. This battle, then that battle,.. this fort , then that fort. As if the rest of the world didn't exist. A kind of patriotic fairy tale. The US was part of a global shuffling of powers that lead to a reduction in monarchical rule and the establishment of popular rule. All this revolution was happening at more or less the same time. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 15:30:44 I'm sorry, but what the F does that have to do with the addition of the 2nd Amendment in the Bill of Rights??? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/07/19 at 15:37:33 The establishment of a militia in the Constitution.. Originally to defend against the British... Later, after a standing army was established... they became a general police type force. We now have both... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/07/19 at 15:45:02 704245545342556A46554C270 wrote:
You accused me of not knowing history... I know it better than you. Screaming that the 2nd amendment protects my guns,.. is not having an understanding of history. The Constitution is more nuanced than that. I'm not a Constitutional scholar. Neither are you,... nor is Trump.(I seriously doubt if Trump has even read it). Obama,... is... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/07/19 at 16:55:40 You accused me of not knowing history... I know it better than you. In the South they would say "Oh, bless his heart....." Your partisanship blinds you. You see one way and only one way. The 2nd Amendment absolutely protects the right for citizens to own weapons. Since you're such a student of history, Google the Federalist Papers and the arguments that went into Constitution and the Bill of Rights. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/07/19 at 18:27:01 Have you read the Federalist Papers?... Here's a clip on armed militia. Author: Alexander Hamilton Quote:
Seems to put a lot of importance in the regulation of a militia by a national authority. Also, purposed for fighting insurrection and invasion,.. not fighting your own government or shootin' burglars... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 04:46:09 And I could site Federalist 46. JOG has posted i fo for these past years on this topic. The undeniable bottom line is for the vast majority of this nation's history, the freedom from government interference in the lives of it's citizens with regards to private firearm ownership has been understood and agreed to by a vast majority. We've agreed to restrictions that do not violate the spirit of the 2nd Amendment. Automatic weapons are very difficult, not impossible, to obtain. I don't believe there are many who object to that. I don't. You can't own a jet with sidewinder missiles, I'm okay with that. Just like certain exceptions to all the original Amendments. So we're faced with how to react to the rare random mass shootings. Do we use the current judicial system to add more exceptions to the 2nd? I say no. There are millions and millions of semiauto rifles in this country today of which 99.99999% are never used in the commission of a crime. It seems un-American to restrict the freedom of many due to what is chiefly a partisan political response to relativity rare events. And before some of you go bonkers over that last statement, let me point out that I recall at least two of you objecting to immigration restrictions from chiefly Islamic nations with poor passport control after the California shootings because you thought the extreme rareness of these events meant any proposal was not proportional. I would say the same thing here. Fact is we've had the equivalent of 4 or 5 El Paso's if you consider the murders that have occurred in the nation since last Saturday. These shootings are rare. Don't toss aside a couple hundred years of historical precedent and sound logic based on what is partially a media fueled outrage. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 05:46:50 053730212637201F332039520 wrote:
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 06:08:16 There are 300 million plus people in the us. Take the number of random mass shootings this year and do a little math. The answer will be rare. Than a drivers license??? Millions of people drive millions of miles per day constantly interacting with others. How many accidents across the nation are there everyday? 50,000? No idea. The vast vast majority of all guns sit unused for months or years at a time. Where did 99.9999% come from? It’s an obvious made up number to prove a point. But again do the math. I read there are an estimated 55 million semi auto rifles in US. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 07:38:30 5B696E7F78697E416D7E670C0 wrote:
You read that where? You mean to say that over 15% of all guns in this country are assault rifles? You sure about that? The NSSF says it's more like 15 million (20 if you include all law enforcement). http://www.thetrace.org/2018/09/how-many-assault-weapons-in-the-us/ So, using your made up number, only 15 assault rifles have been used to commit mass shootings. Well, yeah, maybe this year.... smh. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/08/19 at 07:59:05 Okay,.. I read Federalist 46. It's mostly talking about America not having enough people to support a standing army that could repel the British. Note they are talking about a militia to repel the British... Invasion and insurrection. (Insurrection would likely be referring to English loyalists) Not modern times individuals standing against their own US government. But even if it was,.. the militia would be there to tamp them down not arm them. The main point here is, we now have a standing army. It is the most powerful in the world. One has to look at reality. So many things are so different now. Population,.. weaponry,... ...frikken' Paul Revere would have a smart phone. ;D A well regulated militia is no longer a consideration. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 08:05:31 There are 300 million plus people in the us. Take the number of random mass shootings this year and do a little math. The answer will be rare. LOL - so, over 200 a year is... rare? Not been 200. I'm not counting the day to day shootings and neither are you. We have 2 or 3 El Paso's every single day in the country. Hell, I bet in Chicago, you've had 3 day weeksends with close to the same number killed. I believe we've had maybe 4 or perhaps 5 random mass shootings. We're talking about occurrences, not deaths, mark. Sure, 4 or 5 occurrences. If we're talking about oh, let's say a year comprised of 365.25 days, then over 200 occurrences in that time frame is - common. Than a drivers license??? Millions of people drive millions of miles per day constantly interacting with others. How many accidents across the nation are there everyday? 50,000? No idea. The vast vast majority of all guns sit unused for months or years at a time. Where did 99.9999% come from? It’s an obvious made up number to prove a point. But again do the math. I read there are an estimated 55 million semi auto rifles in US. You read that where? You mean to say that over 15% of all guns in this country are assault rifles? You sure about that? If there are 300 million plus guns in the US, 55 million semi auto rifles seems reasonable to me. The NSSF says it's more like 15 million (20 if you include all law enforcement). http://www.thetrace.org/2018/09/how-many-assault-weapons-in-the-us/ So, using your made up number, only 15 assault rifles have been used to commit mass shootings. Well, yeah, maybe this year.... smh. Actually, I think the real percentage is probably 99.999998667%. My excel file tells me 4 as a percent of 300 million is .000001333% 5 is .000001667% 6 is .000002%. 15 is .000005% So yea, I'd say semi auto rifles used in random mass shootings is a pretty rare occurrence. I fully realize that if you're one of those, numbers like that don't matter. But I read 815 kids under 14 drown in pools every year. I see no call to ban pools. We have regulations, inspections, some place legislate lifeguards, etc.... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 08:25:50 013334252233241B37243D560 wrote:
LOL - yeah, because the express intent of pools is to drown children, right? mark - the semi-auto gun is manufactured to one thing, and one thing only - destroy anything it's pointed at. Don't give me BS stats on accidental deaths by drowning or cars - those are laughable comparisons. We have about 350 million guns in this country - why is anyone surprised that we have hundreds - yes, mark, HUNDREDS of mass shootings every year? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 09:42:59 7D6B7C61796C617A0E0 wrote:
I disagree. For most of our history, everyone disagreed with you. It's only lately. No one wants people killed. But I'm not ready to give away something I like and enjoy because a few misuse them. And it is a right expressed in one of the most important documents we have in our history. It means something. No, you can't have them. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/08/19 at 09:57:36 The right to bear 100 round assault rifles... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by raydawg on 08/08/19 at 10:19:00 A well regulated militia is no longer a consideration. And nether is abortion when so many forms of birth control are readily available..... Which will save innocent lives too....... You want to pick and choose, then so can others, what they want to adhere to. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 10:19:22 3A2C3B263E2B263D490 wrote:
That's a lot to carry but whatever. Look, we've hit a wall. It's an absolutely true statement, guns don't kill peopel, people kill people. If guns kill people then pencils make spelling mistakes. Murder rates have fallen dramatically over the past decades. These random mass shootings are seemingly increasing. Despite what the kid under your skirt says, there have not been hundreds of mass shootings. That's just using the wrong statistic for drama's sake. If you're serious about this, then be serious. Look at the people who are doing this. Understand them. Both young men had serious, serious issues. I don't know what the answer is, but I know what its not. And further inflaming the country pursuing solutions that won't do anything of significance is foolish. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 10:45:03 003235242332251A36253C570 wrote:
That's a lot to carry but whatever. Look, we've hit a wall. It's an absolutely true statement, guns don't kill peopel, people kill people. If guns kill people then pencils make spelling mistakes. Murder rates have fallen dramatically over the past decades. These random mass shootings are seemingly increasing. Despite what the kid under your skirt says, there have not been hundreds of mass shootings. That's just using the wrong statistic for drama's sake. If you're serious about this, then be serious. Look at the people who are doing this. Understand them. Both young men had serious, serious issues. I don't know what the answer is, but I know what its not. And further inflaming the country pursuing solutions that won't do anything of significance is foolish.[/quote] "Despite what the kid under your skirt says..." Nice one! You think that one up by yourself mark? Please - tell me again how I made this forum so terrible? Naw, nevermind... I'm just messin' with ya. I actually think it's sad that you live in ignorance to the world around you. There have been hundreds of mass shootings this year alone - that's a fact mark - a fact. I guess you can be thankful that you weren't involved in one, huh? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 11:53:11 Look, I know you are a serial liar, but lets get this straight. When you say hundreds of mass shootings this year in a conversation about El Paso and Dayton, you are lying. You are holding up an apple and an orange and tring to blow smoke up everyone's a$$. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by raydawg on 08/08/19 at 12:12:44 7F4D4A5B5C4D5A65495A43280 wrote:
Not true Web...he kisses Bot's ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 12:21:02 7E4C4B5A5D4C5B64485B42290 wrote:
Am I? Gee, name calling is your hallmark lately, isn't it? Well, it's not like I'm making up stats like you are - but hey, pointing fingers is the conservative way, right? Here you go, mark - see these stats and ignore them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_in_2019 http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mass-shootings-2019-more-mass-shootings-than-days-so-far-this-year/ http://time.com/4965022/deadliest-mass-shooting-us-history/ And, since you like excel so much, here's a little CSV list for ya: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vQBEbQoWMn_P81DuwmlQC0_jr2sJDzkkC0mvF6WLcM53ZYXi8RMfUlunvP1B5W0jRrJvH-wc-WGjDB1/pub?gid=0&single=true&output=csv So now, why don't you ignore the fact that we have the most guns and the most mass shootings on the planet and be done, hmm? SMH |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 12:22:24 50435B46435545220 wrote:
Not true Web...he kisses Bot's ;D ;D ;D ;D [/quote] Why can't you just dialogue like a adult, without the need to be a smart arse.....you just really need attention I guess. Useless, just like tits on a man. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/08/19 at 12:32:30 Personal attacks, DaWg That post contributes nothing,.. posted exclusively to personally attack Tn'T. 5E4D55484D5B4B2C0 wrote:
Serow |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 12:46:05 Well, it's not like I'm making up stats like you are - I didn't make up any stats. I said, as anyone who read it would understand, 99.9999% is an exaggeration intended to point out a fact. Like say someone's as big as a mountain. The other numbers I said were guesses. As it turns out pretty darn good ones, but guesses none the less. Again, you and truth have a strained relationship.... August 6, 2019 Detroit, Michigan 0 4 4 Four people were shot and injured after a dispute.[11] From your link. This is not a mass shootings when the discussion is about random mass shootings like El Paso. The only reason why anyone would try to include this is the conversation is because they are trying to be dishonest. Do you really think a conversation where 4 people were shot and injured belongs in a conversation about El Paso, Dayton, Las Vegas etc....? Who doesn't like Excel?... Again, not the same. There have not been 200+ RANDOM mass shootings like the ones that have brought the topic of RANDOM mass shootings to the forefront. I try not to put you down and point out your stupidity and ignorance, but Jesus man....make it harder for me! For crying out loud..... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 12:48:55 So now, why don't you ignore the fact that we have the most guns and the most mass shootings on the planet and be done, hmm? Never, ever denied that. I'd be shocked and suspicious if someone said otherwise. I would suspect that someone with your intellect was making stuff up to prove a falsehood if they said that..... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 12:50:14 495F48554D58554E3A0 wrote:
Serow[/quote] Even Sew must be getting tired of TT's lies, he posted Raw's shot again in TT's favorite Blue and even bolded it, to make a point! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/08/19 at 12:58:09 I left it up, so you guys wouldn't accuse me of making things up. It's childish. ...and you're a part of it too, Web. Dawg's just following your lead. Serow |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by verslagen1 on 08/08/19 at 13:25:29 So looking at that spreadsheet... filtering on rifles and 2019 there are 3 events. 3/15 million = 99.99998% 3/55 million = 99.999995% 675552434455427D51425B300 wrote:
As it turns out, not an exaggeration. 243A353439243F22500 wrote:
According to mother jones, only 7 total this year. So this can be considered an exaggeration. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 14:20:19 023037262130271834273E550 wrote:
You can't put me down unless you lie about it (see how that works, mark?) T&T - FTW! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by raydawg on 08/08/19 at 14:29:13 No Bot....you let so many slights thru your censoring, that agree with your own beliefs, and you fault others for employing the same snark. You shut down debate, just like the left has done for decades with their PC doctrine to the point things have reached a fever pitch.... Because its folk like you who won't even entertain other viewpoints, and then you say others are intolerant, etc.... That is what is driving so much push back out in the big bad world.... You can't stand to be challenged, that is the reality of why we are where we are today. Look, you threatened to leave the states if Trump won, how lame, and you are still here...WHY? One jerk snap man with a GIANT ego, and to me, many major personality defects, has the ability, capacity, to change, all by himself, the united states...come on, that just isn't possible.... You guys play fear, always have, folks are getting wiser, and getting really tired of it.... Now he is talking to the masses in code.....how sad. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 14:33:49 32213637282523212A75440 wrote:
As it turns out, not an exaggeration. 243A353439243F22500 wrote:
According to mother jones, only 7 total this year. So this can be considered an exaggeration.[/quote] Well, sadly, Mother Jones' guidelines are far different than most: Here is a description of the criteria we use: The perpetrator took the lives of at least four people. A 2008 FBI report identifies an individual as a mass murderer—versus a spree killer or a serial killer—if he kills four or more people in a single incident (not including himself), typically in a single location. (*In 2013, the US government’s fatality baseline was revised down to three.) The killings were carried out by a lone shooter. (Except in the case of the Columbine massacre and the Westside Middle School killings, which involved two shooters.) The shootings occurred in a public place. (Except in the case of a party on private property in Crandon, Wisconsin, and another in Seattle, where crowds of strangers had gathered, essentially constituting a public crowd.) Crimes primarily related to gang activity or armed robbery are not included, nor are mass killings that took place in private homes (often stemming from domestic violence). Perpetrators who died or were wounded during the attack are not included in the victim tallies. We included a handful of cases also known as “spree killings“— cases in which the killings occurred in more than one location, but still over a short period of time, that otherwise fit the above criteria. Then we have Snopes: The United States had 251 mass shootings during the first 216 days of 2019. What's True When "mass shooting" is defined as an incident in which four or more people are shot, the U.S. had 251 such incidents in the first 216 days of 2019. What's False No set definition exists for "mass shooting." As such, the number of incidents varies greatly depending on the criteria used to count them. Again - T&T - FTW! Thank you! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/08/19 at 15:06:45 12011904011707600 wrote:
Quite a load you let loose there... All BS... Just don't make personal attacks or insults. Sero |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/08/19 at 15:28:24 352B242528352E33410 wrote:
Again, for the umpteenth time. Exactly what do you propose ? Which is NOT in the 6 page FEDERAL form one must fill out, and NOT LIE on, every time they buy a gun. And the Background Check required on Every Gun Purchase, which is regulated by the FBI, which last I checked, it was still a Federal Gov agency. It should not be easier to legally get a gun than it is to legally drive a car. Not even remotely close to being true. (Well unless you are talking about certain back streets of Chicago) |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by verslagen1 on 08/08/19 at 15:30:08 4F515E5F524F54493B0 wrote:
Don't hurt yourself running around with those goalposts. ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 15:50:12 6C4F725153484F46210 wrote:
Again, for the umpteenth time. Exactly what do you propose ? Which is NOT in the 6 page FEDERAL form one must fill out, and NOT LIE on, every time they buy a gun. And the Background Check required on Every Gun Purchase, which is regulated by the FBI, which last I checked, it was still a Federal Gov agency. It should not be easier to legally get a gun than it is to legally drive a car. Not even remotely close to being true. Yes, it is - in Iowa, Indiana, Wisconsin and several other states. (Well unless you are talking about certain back streets of Chicago) [/quote] Not to worry, mn. I'm not going to have this conversation with you. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 15:52:06 4C5F4849565B5D5F540B3A0 wrote:
Don't hurt yourself running around with those goalposts. ;D[/quote] Not to worry, vers. I'm fine. I posted the other links in my previous post, but you focused on Mother Jones. Good for you! If you can't keep up, it's not my fault. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 16:28:51 This is stupid. Gang bangers shooting each other and a nut shooting indiscriminately into a crowd are not the same thing. This is the left's pathetic attempt to inflate stats when it suits them. There have been a few random mass shootings this year. End of discussion. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 16:29:59 If you can't keep up, it's not my fault. Keeping up with your childish nonsense and lies is a full time job. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 16:42:40 714344555243546B47544D260 wrote:
Oooo... scathing retort mark! :D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/08/19 at 17:06:39 302E21202D302B36440 wrote:
Really, didn't know if people lived in those States, they were exempt from Federal Regulations ! Did Eric Holder say so ?????? I'm not going to have this conversation with you. Figures |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/08/19 at 17:28:52 I would have to agree that the definition of 4 or more injured is too vague to meet the common perception of "mass shooting". The key word being "perception". So since there is no specific definition there is no point to having the argument of what a "mass shooting" is. It's what you want it to be. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by oldNslow on 08/08/19 at 17:59:47 Eegore wrote "It's what you want it to be." Yup. Definitions matter. Without agreement about what a word or a phrase means, any meaningful discussion is impossible. Which , of course, is quite often the point of trying to control the definition in the first place. Folks can't think without using words to form their thoughts. Control the words, control the thoughts. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 18:02:18 No, its not "what you want it to be." Context is king as they say. This whole topic is centered around RANDOM MASS SHOOTINGS. Our good friemd from Chicago doesn't start a thread when 4 or more are shot in a single incident. That probably happens every day in this country. These were unique, stand alone incidents. You cannot say we've had 251 mass shootings this year and lump those in as if they're the same as El Paso and Dayton. That's deceptive at best, a flat out lie at worst. But if you repeat it long enough, the foolish will believe it like Sarah Palin had something to do with Gabby Giffords or Trump said Nazis were fine people. All of those things are not what you want it to be. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/08/19 at 18:10:40 487A7D6C6B7A6D527E6D741F0 wrote:
Just like the LIE Sarah Brady repeated for 43 years. And her followers are still repeating the LIE. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by oldNslow on 08/08/19 at 18:26:29 Quote:
"A lie told once remains a lie but a lie told a thousand times becomes the truth" –J. Goebbels It works. That's why they do it. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/08/19 at 18:27:58 Well some count 3+ victims, some say 4+ victims,.. some say a least 4 deaths, some at least 1 death. The death part is stupid,... if someone went into a bar and shot 27 people but none were fatal,.. I'd still call that a mass shooting. (try telling the 27 people they weren't shot)... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/08/19 at 18:37:14 "The death part is stupid,... if someone went into a bar and shot 27 people but none were fatal,.. I'd still call that a mass shooting." This demonstrates my point. The parameters are set by the person making the assessment. I have asked this very question before, if someone wounds a group of people with a gun would that be a mass shooting? Is it "Shooting?" that makes the definition? This is why I prefer the Active Shooter definition. Either someone is/was actively shooting, or they are/were not. Then its a matter of intent. We can argue the definition all day long and still get nowhere. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/08/19 at 18:47:18 4650475A42575A41350 wrote:
If those 27 people died in a car accident, by a drunk driver hitting them. If those 27 people died in a car accident, by someone who was texting. Would it be the glass bottle, or the cell phone, that is at fault ? Or would it be the person who drank what was in the bottle, and used the cell phone ? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by oldNslow on 08/08/19 at 19:02:59 4764597A7863646D0A0 wrote:
If those 27 people died in a car accident, by a drunk driver hitting them. If those 27 people died in a car accident, by someone who was texting. Would it be the glass bottle, or the cell phone, that is at fault ? Or would it be the person who drank what was in the bottle, and used the cell phone ? [/quote] It would be the car's fault. Just like all shootings are the gun's fault. Which is why we gotta ban them Everybody knows that ::) |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/08/19 at 20:24:08 4F594E534B5E53483C0 wrote:
You're not a stupid man. Hyper-partisan, but not stupid. The nation is collectively in shock over a random mass shooting. Stop dragging what amouts to day to day criminal activity onto the same pile so as to make your point about gun control. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 20:51:19 65467B585A41464F280 wrote:
Really, didn't know if people lived in those States, they were exempt from Federal Regulations ! Did Eric Holder say so ?????? Nope - Federal law requires background checks for commercial gun sales, but not for private-party sales whereby any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the same state as long as they do not know or have reasonable cause to believe the purchaser is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. I'm not going to have this conversation with you. Figures [/quote] |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 20:57:21 4C7E79686F7E69567A69701B0 wrote:
The palin mentality, just like trump's and most of the neo-cons, is the root cause. The over the top rhetoric, the fear mongering (war on Christmas anyone?), the blind partisanship - it all contributes to things like "pizza-gate" and the "legitimacy" of morons like alex jones. This is the bed you conservatives made. Lay in it - wallow in it. Own it. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/08/19 at 21:05:20 350700111607102F031009620 wrote:
You're not a stupid man. Hyper-partisan, but not stupid. The nation is collectively in shock over a random mass shooting. Stop dragging what amouts to day to day criminal activity onto the same pile so as to make your point about gun control. [/quote] Think of this, mark. If it truly is no big deal, then why the hell are you so adamant about it? Why are you yammering on about how we libs are stupid and we should all just focus our attention away from any type of gun control? Why are your guns more important that someone's life? What gives? You wanna collect AKs - fine. Maybe you should have to federally register it and list all your other guns. What's the big deal? You have such a problem with what is and isn't a mass shooting. Why the distinction? Mass shooting is just that - a mass shooting. We have a serious problem in this country and no, it's not the gun's fault. But it sure as hell wouldn't be as bad/deadly without the guns. FFS - wake up. We are gun crazed in this country, and until we get real change in our federal gun laws, it's not going to get any better. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/09/19 at 04:43:28 The palin mentality, just like trump's and most of the neo-cons, is the root cause. The over the top rhetoric, the fear mongering (war on Christmas anyone?), the blind partisanship - it all contributes to things like "pizza-gate" and the "legitimacy" of morons like alex jones. Simply not true. At least you get a star on your chart for for writing so many words in a row without a lie. Good for you. Your opinions are all wrong and you show zero comprehension for the depth of topics, but at least you didn't make up a lie this time. Treat yourself to some ice creme! If over the top rhetoric, fear mongering and singling out groups for criticism were "the root cause" responsible for violence, all us armed deplorables would have confronted you snowflakes. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/09/19 at 04:50:55 FFS - wake up. We are gun crazed in this country, and until we get real change in our federal gun laws, it's not going to get any better. As has been pointed out and ignored, your town of Chicago has very specific and targeted gun laws yet has very high rates of gun crime. Didn't you just have a 3 day weekend in which 70 different people were shot?! So explain just exactly why any reasonable person would expect crazed individuals, like the El Paso and Dayton killers were, are going to be prevented from getting these weapons, of which there are millions across the nation. I know you refuse to read what he wrote, but the lengths to which the El Paso shooter went to finish his plan were extraordinary. The Dayton shooter had years and years of violence in his past. Ask his ex-girlfriend. (oh thats right, you won't read that either, you'll take Maddow's word for it) |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/09/19 at 05:08:43 5D6F68797E6F78476B78610A0 wrote:
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/09/19 at 05:09:18 Think of this, mark. If it truly is no big deal, then why the hell are you so adamant about it? Why are you yammering on about how we libs are stupid and we should all just focus our attention away from any type of gun control? Why are your guns more important that someone's life? What gives? You wanna collect AKs - fine. Maybe you should have to federally register it and list all your other guns. What's the big deal? You have such a problem with what is and isn't a mass shooting. Why the distinction? Mass shooting is just that - a mass shooting. Because you leftist are lying and trying to use this lie to advance your cause. We have a serious problem in this country and no, it's not the gun's fault. But it sure as hell wouldn't be as bad/deadly without the guns. FFS - wake up. We are gun crazed in this country, and until we get real change in our federal gun laws, it's not going to get any better. No, we are not a gun crazed country. Virtually all gun crimes are committed in relatively isolated regions in large urban ares. You know this from Chicago, I know this from St Louis. If we had no 2nd Amendment would there be less gun crimes? The answer is a resounding YES. I would argue against anyone who suggested otherwise. I would also argue with out the 4th Amendment, there be gar less crime of any kind. Without the 1st, crime would drop to next to nothing. We're Americans living in a couple centuries into the great human experiment in self-government on such a large scale. I was watching the movie Pleasantville last night. The basic plot line behind that movie is a boy and his sister get transported into the world of a 1950s "Leave it to Beaver " type town. The town people never leave their town, everything is in black-and-white, everything is safe and secure. And there's a scene in that movie where the boy is trying to explain what life is like in the modern world of the United States around 2010 I suppose. He says it's dangerous, it's scary, but it's "wonderful". I'm not giving away my freedom so you can have the illusion of safety. I'm not trusting 100% for the security of myself and my family in a government that elects people like Hillary Clinton, Barrack Obama, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Beto whatever the fxxx his last name is this week. I don't want to place everything in the hands of emasculated men or pandering women like that. Not gonna do it. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/09/19 at 05:10:16 665453424554437C50435A310 wrote:
That rhetoric originates on the right. The alex jones' of the world are not on the left. Fear is the tool of the conservative. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/09/19 at 07:11:46 554B444548554E53210 wrote:
And again you completely LIE. (What was that Propaganda, Repeat a LIE often enough, and people will believe it) You do nothing but, BLAME someone else. You simply do NOT know what all the laws are. You simply don't know all firearms are required to have a serial number on them, (G.C.A. 1968) You simply don't know what a trace is or how they work. You simply don't know how a Face to Face transfer works, what it involves, how it accomplished, and how people do it. No reason to educate you, you will just keep repeating LIES. You do know how to, 'cry, cry, cry, it's their fault, that Socialism is not working in Ill/Chicago, sniff, sniff, sniff'. Used to say: "How's that war on Drugs working for ya" But you never got it. Let's try this: "How's that Socialism in IL working for ya ?" |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/09/19 at 07:49:20 51724F6C6E75727B1C0 wrote:
And again you completely LIE. (What was that Propaganda, Repeat a LIE often enough, and people will believe it) You do nothing but, BLAME someone else. You simply do NOT know what all the laws are. Yes, I do. You simply don't know all firearms are required to have a serial number on them, (G.C.A. 1968) I never disputed that. I'm talking about a license, not serial number. You simply don't know what a trace is or how they work. Yes, I do. But if you buy a gun at a gun show in Wisconsin, it's up to "billy bob" to do the due diligence...lol You simply don't know how a Face to Face transfer works, what it involves, how it accomplished, and how people do it. See above re: billy bob. No reason to educate you, you will just keep repeating LIES. I only deal in facts, sorry. You do know how to, 'cry, cry, cry, it's their fault, that Socialism is not working in Ill/Chicago, sniff, sniff, sniff'. Used to say: "How's that war on Drugs working for ya" But you never got it. Let's try this: "How's that Socialism in IL working for ya ?" I like the socialist programs. I like affordable housing, I like public schools, I like the interstates, I like Obamacare, I (will) like Medicare, etc. I like that you're scared of them. LOL [/quote] |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/09/19 at 07:51:39 322C23222F322934460 wrote:
See how that works, You say one thing: "federally register it" about one type of firearm. Then sneak in: "and list all your other guns" Ya Just Don't get it. (And most likely never will) Oh, By The Way, How's that Socialism working for ya in Ill ? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/09/19 at 08:10:55 5B784566647F7871160 wrote:
See how that works, You say one thing: "federally register it" about one type of firearm. Then sneak in: "and list all your other guns" Ya Just Don't get it. (And most likely never will) Oh, By The Way, How's that Socialism working for ya in Ill ? It's going great, thanks! [/quote] |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/09/19 at 08:40:05 352B242528352E33410 wrote:
So is that why: "It's about the laws of the stated that border Illinois." You always, cry, that it is, always, someone Else's fault ! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/09/19 at 08:43:49 61427F5C5E45424B2C0 wrote:
So is that why: "It's about the laws of the stated that border Illinois." You always, cry, that it is, always, someone Else's fault ! Well, mn - can you show us all how the gun laws in Indiana, Wisconsin and Iowa re the same as Illinois? (I'll answer it for ya - No, they're not) Do you need an analogy to understand/comprehend? Fine - let's say that you live in a dry county. If you want a beer, then all you gotta do is drive to the next county. Any of this sinking in?.....(that's rhetorical) [/quote] |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/09/19 at 08:55:52 445A555459445F42300 wrote:
I'll repeat: "You simply don't know how a Face to Face transfer works, what it involves, how it accomplished, and how people do it" and "No reason to educate you, you will just keep repeating LIES." Just like C.U., B.S., AOC, and R.M. have TOLD YOU to do. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/09/19 at 08:59:39 4A695477756E6960070 wrote:
I'll repeat: "You simply don't know how a Face to Face transfer works, what it involves, how it accomplished, and how people do it" and "No reason to educate you, you will just keep repeating LIES." Just like C.U., B.S., AOC, and R.M. have TOLD YOU to do. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D [/quote] The problem is mn - I do know how it works. You think billy bob is gonna do his due diligence when he's got to get home to his double wide and NASCAR? You're not only funny, but gullible! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/09/19 at 09:17:30 726C63626F726974060 wrote:
Not my problem, you don't know how things work. Very clear, you are just repeating, what you are, TOLD to say. Oh, how's that Socialism working you for ya ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/09/19 at 09:19:23 5F7C4162607B7C75120 wrote:
Not my problem, you don't know how things work. Very clear, you are just repeating, what you are, TOLD to say. Oh, how's that Socialism working you for ya ? It's working great. Are you expecting a different answer? Do you have a mental problem that makes you ask a question over and over? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D [/quote] |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/09/19 at 09:30:43 I see motorcycle ads on Craigslist all the time saying. "Will consider 2nd amendment trades"... That's code for guns. There's no registration, no background checks... https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/mcy/d/phoenix-2007-honda-areo-vt-750/6927153365.html "May consider 2nd amendment items in part" |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/09/19 at 09:43:24 "You simply don't know how a Face to Face transfer works, what it involves, how it accomplished, and how people do it" To say face to face transfer requires any form of due diligence is false. Bottom line is people can sell, give, loan, trade guns with zero interaction of any researching or verification party. People trade guns all the time, I have, it's legal and many people think this is a "loophole" "Any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law." Each state may have other requirements. https://www.atf.gov/firearms/state-laws-and-published-ordinances-firearms-33rd-edition |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/09/19 at 10:18:40 Suggestions of laws that may actually reduce gun violence that I read somewhere. 1) prosecute of straw purchasers 2) concealed carry laws 3) stop hiding the disciplinary records of high school kids 4) allow crazy people to be institutionalized 5) force local officials to follow up on "red flag" tips. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/09/19 at 10:50:35 7E5E5C54495E3B0 wrote:
In my experience that is a false statement. Face to face transfer requires, due diligence ! Can a person Not, do, 'due diligence', and can a person Lie, Sure. Like someone from IL, going to Wisc, and Lying, about their State of residence, and criminal history. And encountering a person that does not care if that person is LYING. (which VERY RARE, If at all, that, would happen at a Gun Show) It would be most likely buying a gun out of a trunk in a dark alley in Chicago/Milwaukee People can buy drugs on the street, hire a prostitute, rob a bank, kill someone, etc. It's called 'Crime'. How many criminals do you know, follow the laws ? Bottom line is people can sell, give, loan, trade guns with zero interaction of any researching or verification party. Again that is false. (The Law, you posted below) People trade guns all the time, I have, it's legal and many people think this is a "loophole" It is legal, if one followed the Law. See Below. "Any person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of the State where he resides as long as he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law." Each state may have other requirements. Which can be stronger, not more lenient. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/09/19 at 11:03:14 685A5D4C4B5A4D725E4D543F0 wrote:
YET: 1) prosecute of straw purchasers Ask Obama, and Eric Holder about that. They Threatened FFL dealers to ALLOW that ! 2) concealed carry laws Every State that has enacted a, shall issue over a may issue, the crime rate has gone DOWN. Yet the Socialists fight them every step of the way. 3) stop hiding the disciplinary records of high school kids Oh No, the UL-FDS's say you can't do that ! 4) allow crazy people to be institutionalized What ? According to the 'Ban-Guns' people, they're NO, crazy people, it is the objects fault. 5) force local officials to follow up on "red flag" tips. See # 3 LOLOLOLOLOLL |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/09/19 at 11:19:29 "Face to face transfer requires, due diligence !" Explain how a Face to Face transfer of a firearm can not be completed unless due diligence is conducted. If its "required" then it can not happen without the requirement. For instance a Face to Face transfer of a firearm requires two or more people, one or more firearms, and a face to face meeting. If any of those are not met, then you do not have a face to face exchange. There requires no lying to conduct a face to face transfer of a firearm. One does not need to lie to do that. "Bottom line is people can sell, give, loan, trade guns with zero interaction of any researching or verification party. Again that is false. (The Law, you posted below)" Incorrect. The law does not require research or verification. "does not know or have reasonable cause to believe" means flat out ignorance to a person's background. No requirement to verify anything beyond a State ID. Pretend all you want but people can exchange firearms without verification or research, and they can do it without lying. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/09/19 at 12:10:06 7757555D4057320 wrote:
I agree, if they are from the same State, and if they are not prohibited by some other thing. If they are NOT from the same state, and DO have say a Felony, then they would be LYING. And it is your, Due Diligence, to determine if you have reasonable cause to believe, or not believe that person. "...Explain how a Face to Face transfer of a firearm can not be completed unless due diligence is conducted ..." Of course, due diligence, does Not have to done. Exactly the way that you don't 'have' to, due, due diligence, when you merge onto a 4 lane freeway, full of traffic on your MC. This discussion is NOT, about what laws are on the books. It is about how some people do not, obey the laws. And some believe, More Laws, will make a criminal do, due diligence. (or obey the law) "one must drive their MC with both eyes open" I am not aware of any official law, saying that. So is it, due diligence, to do so ? Oh, a Criminal, won't do that ? Gee if Criminals, obeyed the Law/s IL/Chicago, would be a better place. I know, let's get, Socialism to do it, Socialism will make Criminals obey the law ! The whole point is, tt is crying that it is someone else's fault, (neighboring States) that despite the Draconian gun laws of IL, Chicago has one of the highest murder rates in the Nation. And does NOT see, Punish the Criminal, Not the thing. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/09/19 at 12:27:51 "And does NOT see, Punish the Criminal, Not the thing." And the other side is you do NOT see that access control is part of the problem, just part of it, not the entirety of it. Punishing a criminal only after a crime is committed is not acceptable if prevention is possible. If DUI was only illegal after you kill someone there would be more dead people on the road. Why would that be ok? Firearm control is about prevention, but instead of acknowledging the fact that less firearms means less firearm related death people will compare red cars to AR-15's as if that proves anything besides poor analogy. More firearm laws will most likely not prevent criminal firearm access due to the huge availability of illegal weapons. Pretending people can't sell/trade each other guns in an unsafe manner gets us nowhere because nobody is going to believe that all legal firearm transactions go above and beyond to gather a criminal background. So pro-gun needs to admit that the current Federal Law is not as safe as it could be, and pro-gun-control needs to admit that most law as it is suggested now won't change a thing. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/09/19 at 12:51:51 5C7C7E766B7C190 wrote:
Access control exists. Criminals do Not follow those, access control's. More access controls, will not suddenly make Criminals follow, access controls. "...instead of acknowledging the fact that less firearms means less firearm related death..." Saying: "Acknowledging the fact that less red cars, means less red car related death" Is exactaly the same as someone saying: "We have to Remove, Restrict, Control, these 'scary looking guns', which will mean less 'scary looking guns' related deaths. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/09/19 at 13:17:44 "Access control exists." It exists, but can be better. Again you are making analogies instead of having a productive conversation. Once people in your position are capable of admitting that legal gun transactions could be made safer then there can be some productive conversation. All these pro-gun guys marching around with AR's over their shoulders is getting their point across to no one but themselves. Red car analogies influence the decisions of zero lawmakers. "Saying: "Acknowledging the fact that less red cars, means less red car related death" Is exactaly the same as someone saying: "We have to Remove, Restrict, Control, these 'scary looking guns', which will mean less 'scary looking guns' related deaths." Yes. Both are true. Fewer red cars means fewer red car related deaths, same with firearms. As I said its murder-rate-per-second not "scary" factor. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/09/19 at 15:15:38 6747454D5047220 wrote:
Ah, but it is, the 'scary' factor. Because no reasonable idea has ever been put forth. Except for the like of: 'We gotta Ban that Kind of Gun' (That kinna gun, is the, 'Scary' gun) And the repeating of the multiple of laws all ready on the books that the criminals pay no attention to. Fewer red cars means fewer red car related deaths, same with firearms. Didn't say that, (you been listening to tt to much) Ban/Remove Red cars, no red car accidents. Still as many car accidents, just none/less with red cars. Ban/Remove, 'scary' guns, no, 'Scary' gun killings Still as many gun killings, just none/less using the, 'scary' gun. Removing peoples freedom, saying you can not have, 'That' thing. Happened in 1934, then again 1968, with many revisions to both. What has changed ? I believe it is that more and more people, believe, and are being told, they are not responsible for their actions. No amount of removing a thing that that was a tool for a DFI, will stop another DFI from using a similar tool/thing. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/09/19 at 20:13:48 "(That kinna gun, is the, 'Scary' gun)" My sources are typically trauma reports indicating the type and rate of injury based off of projectile used. None. None of those evaluations mentions "scary" "intimidating" "dangerous" or in any way assigns some adjective to a firearm. It's evidence based data only. "Scary" isn't there, it is literally a study of human anatomy being damaged by foreign body impact and the survivability of said impacts. The murder rate per minute is not calculated off of gun type and what it looks like, it is calculated off of the physical results measured from dead human beings. This scary gun monologue comes from pro-gun trying to downplay the results of murder rate per minute. "No amount of removing a thing that that was a tool for a DFI, will stop another DFI from using a similar tool/thing" I agree. I also am open minded enough to understand, or at least attempt to understand the broad range of issues surrounding projectile weapon murder rates. I believe that if firearms were removed people would use knives and explosives since this is what happens pretty much everywhere else where this is a thing. I am however willing to accept that there are too many illegal methods of firearm acquisition to expect a firearm ban to be very effective for multiple generations, and also willing to accept that the proven psychological patterns of depression effected humans indicates many would not use explosives on other people. The problem is people take these outlandish far right or left stances and go even further with ridiculous comparisons in a feeble attempt to end a conversation instead of just having one. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/10/19 at 09:13:40 634341495443260 wrote:
Agree ! Just as illegal methods of accusation occur with just about anything. outlandish far right or left stances and go even further with ridiculous comparisons Many comparisons are not ridicules. As well as Phrases: Like the often used: ‘Enforce the laws already on the books’ Another example, some, will say is, ’ridicules’. A Felon (who is released from jail) walks into a gun store. (At that point they have already violated Federal law) They fill out a 4473, (for the purchase of a gun) which they LIE on several places. The dealer calls it in, they are ‘Denied’, Dealer tells them they are Deniened. The Felon says, ‘OK See Ya’ then leaves. What do you think will happen ? (I’ll tell you, NOTHING) A Person walks into a bank, puts their hand in their coat pocket, with a finger pointing through the fabric. Says to the teller, ‘give me all your money’ The teller says, ’NO’, ‘I know that is a hand in your pocket’. The person ‘asking’ for the money says, ‘OK see ya’ then leaves. What do you think will happen ? Both people attempted to commit a, Federal Crime. One is prosecuted, the other is not. (gee tt would call that, ‘Racist’) |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Fast 650 on 08/10/19 at 23:57:29 Firearms aren't the problem, the person using it for something other than the intended purpose is the problem. Look at the idiots swallowing laundry detergent. Do we need to have background checks just to be able to buy a box of detergent to do our laundry? We need to fix the problem, not treat the symptom. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/11/19 at 09:40:34 I was in Wal-Mart on the soap aisle. Lady working there, straightening stuff up. I walked up and asked where the Tide pods were. She showed them to me, pointed out the different quantity containers. You should've seen her face when I asked if they had any Snack Packs. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/11/19 at 09:48:33 12352720626164540 wrote:
These guys need access to assault weapons... ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by thumperclone on 08/11/19 at 10:14:29 I don't have the cure I know more laws are not I do you think the mary jane black market has subsided in recreation legal states? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/11/19 at 14:32:23 223E233B263324353A393833560 wrote:
That's interesting, don't know. Is their someone that would know a oz cost 'X' amount in the 'approved' store, and the same quality oz, costs 'x' amount in the dark alley ? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/11/19 at 16:56:15 5D7E436062797E77100 wrote:
Not my problem, you don't know how things work. Very clear, you are just repeating, what you are, TOLD to say. Oh, how's that Socialism working you for ya ? Democratic Socialism is working great for me - how many times are you going to ask the same question. Do you have a disability? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D [/quote] Are you serious? Do you have any idea what context is? I was not saying "the problem is mn." In context - The problem is mn - I do know how it works. Now, I will admit, the hyphen may be poorly placed, but anyone (except you, I guess) can see that I was stating that I do indeed know how face to face transfers work. You naively think that all those good ol' boys are gonna do their due diligence. That's hilarious! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/11/19 at 17:12:07 726C63626F726974060 wrote:
I know for a fact it isn't, because I have been offered gun trades for bikes I've had for sale. Multiple times. Straight across,.. no questions asked. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/11/19 at 19:02:34 382E39243C29243F4B0 wrote:
You used the word, HAVE, So that means you did not ? So did you do, YOUR, due diligence ? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/11/19 at 19:09:09 3C222D2C213C273A480 wrote:
From the news reports, rather clear that all the, 'good ol' boys', killing off the equivalent +, of a school shooting, every weekend in Chicago, are not doing any, due diligence. Criminals, due, due diligence, WHEN ? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/11/19 at 19:46:36 "Look at the idiots swallowing laundry detergent. Do we need to have background checks just to be able to buy a box of detergent to do our laundry?" If they kill 50 people in a nightclub with laundry detergent then yes. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/11/19 at 19:48:23 "You used the word, HAVE, So that means you did not ? So did you do, YOUR, due diligence ?" Due diligence in this case means you simply are not aware that someone has committed crime. Federal law requires nothing more than State ID and ignorance of the person's background. That's it. When you trade/sell guns what do you do beyond making sure they have valid State ID? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 05:36:08 1E3D0023213A3D34530 wrote:
From the news reports, rather clear that all the, 'good ol' boys', killing off the equivalent +, of a school shooting, every weekend in Chicago, are not doing any, due diligence. Criminals, due, due diligence, WHEN ? [/quote] They never do - that's the point. The good ol' boys in Indiana are more than happy to sell a gun to a gang banger from Chicago for three times what he paid for it. We had nearly 4 dozen shootings this weekend in Chicago. You think all these idiots went to a show and billy bob sent in his forms? Hell no. The availability is the problem. Too many guns are available to these thugs - and no local "gun safe zone" or local laws are going to stop them. Every single gun should be registered - no exceptions. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 05:41:45 The availability is the problem. Too many guns are available to these thugs - and no local "gun safe zone" or local laws are going to stop them. Every single gun should be registered - no exceptions. Why? How? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 05:58:22 635156474051467955465F340 wrote:
Well, they're already "supposed" to be registered, and the "why" is obvious - billy bob won't sell a gun registered to him to some gang banger. But currently, that system is flawed. The "how" is the flaw. It's obviously easy to file the serial off a gun. But it's pretty safe to assume that there are other ways to "fingerprint" a gun. Every week, in Chicago alone, there are dozens of guns recovered from arrests and raids. If those guns, with their serial numbers ground off, could still be traced back to the person that initially purchased it - that would deter illegal sales. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/12/19 at 06:35:31 "If those guns, with their serial numbers ground off, could still be traced back to the person that initially purchased it - that would deter illegal sales." This is true. Yes it's not "Constitutional" but no matter how one might try to spin the logic - registered firearms are less likely to be used in crime. That does not mean that it will reduce "Mass Shootings" no matter how many times one argues the semantics of what "Mass Shooting" is. This is due to most stranger to stranger public-gathering-based high rate of fire shootings are acquired legally. The real issue is the surrounding circumstances such as the massive amounts of unregistered firearms. The Pro-gun overreach into the CDC that prohibits professional and accurate study. The belief that personal unregistered weapons will stop organized military force. The fear that law can be altered to the point that the registered owner can be charged with murder if the weapon is stolen from them and used in a crime. The fact that many gang related gun crimes are not planned with consequences to the shooter taken into account. Etc. etc. This does not mean that anyone who is willing to accept the fact that registered items are historically less likely to be used in crime is anti-gun and wants all guns taken away, or even registered. It just means they are capable of seeing reality. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 07:11:05 The fact that registered guns are less likely to be used in the commission of a crime is not exactly man bites dog news. The vast, vast majority of guns and their owners (I believe we came up with ridiculous numbers in the 99.9999% range or something close to that) are never used in the commission of a crime. I've yet to see proposed gun legislation that would actually have a high likelihood of reducing gun violence other that confiscation. What are the specific details of the ownership and the guns used in El Paso, Dayton, Las Vegas, Sandy Hook and maybe we'll throw in San Bernardino. If the latest gun legislation would have done nothing to stop those, honestly, what's the point? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 08:11:31 5B696E7F78697E416D7E670C0 wrote:
Well, in the case of mass shooting - yeah, all 200 plus this year - the majority of those are done with illegal guns. We had over 40 shooting incidents this weekend in Chicago. You think any of those guns were legally owned? As to the mass shooting carried out in El Paso, Dayton, etc - those would have probably had less fatalities had there been limits/restrictions on the availability of assault rifles/semi-autos and high volume magazines. And before you cons cry - no, I'm not looking to immediately ban all semi-autos, but they should be handled/sold/licensed differently than other weapons available to the general public. You can argue these points until you're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is - we have more gun deaths in this country because we have the most guns - period. And even more guns are not going to change that. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/12/19 at 08:15:08 7D4F48595E4F58674B58412A0 wrote:
You just called your own made up stat ridiculous... ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/12/19 at 08:38:39 4B6B69617C6B0E0 wrote:
That is not true, it does Not say, 'ignorance'. Saying, 'ignorance', is implying something completely different, to people that do not know and understand that law. And the reason to change words is ? The wording is: ' have reasonable cause '. Which is quite different than, 'ignorance'. Having reasonable cause, is many things, including, what does this transaction, 'feel' like. When you trade/sell guns what do you do beyond making sure they have valid State ID? First order of business is their DL/ID, Then a photo copy of it, or writing down the information it contains. (Someone does NOT want you to do that, That falls under, 'Due Diligence') Next, a Bill of sale, Listing the seller/buyer, the firearm, make model ser#. This is a very simply, 'Due Diligence' or some say say, CYA. Do not use the word, 'ignorance', in place of, 'does not know', in this situation. It may be used in the situation: "A person is ignorant about flying a 747, because they don't know how" Not in a situation, where it is, Implied, a person selling/buying a firearm, is ignorant |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 08:45:05 Well, in the case of mass shooting - yeah, all 200 plus this year - the majority of those are done with illegal guns. We had over 40 shooting incidents this weekend in Chicago. You think any of those guns were legally owned? Probably not a single one. Which, as always, begs the question, why would you think more laws would change that? As to the mass shooting carried out in El Paso, Dayton, etc - those would have probably had less fatalities had there been limits/restrictions on the availability of assault rifles/semi-autos and high volume magazines. The shooter drove 10 hours to carry out his plan. He wrote and extensive paper on why and what he assumed would be he last writings since he planned on dying. You think he wouldn't illegally buy extended magazines or simply take the couple seconds to switch magazines? It's not like the expected to be confronted by armed citizens. You can argue these points until you're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is - we have more gun deaths in this country because we have the most guns - period. And even more guns are not going to change that. I will argue some of those points. Per 100,000 citizens, we're a ways down the list, in 2016 I see we were 9th. But, to your bigger point, sure, there are too many gun deaths. Sure, the 300+million guns in the country play a role. But a larger role is played by culture. The vast majority of gun crimes are isolated in a few zip codes within every major city's poor neighborhoods. And before you blame poverty, remember that in Missouri as is I'm guessing the same in Illinois, the poorest counties are in rural areas where gun ownership is extremely high. Its people with an acceptable level of violence and access to illegal guns. I don't see any proposed law that is going to change that. And before you cons cry - no, I'm not looking to immediately ban all semi-autos, but they should be handled/sold/licensed differently than other weapons available to the general public. Maybe you're telling the truth ( I have my doubts) but that's not what many Democratic politicians say. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 08:46:24 6177607D65707D66120 wrote:
You just called your own made up stat ridiculous... ;D ;D ;D[/quote] Back in the day, I'd think that was funny. Now I'm wondering if your Trump Derangement Syndrome has so damaged your mind, you're serious. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 08:53:25 685A5D4C4B5A4D725E4D543F0 wrote:
Your bias clouds your vision. Sad. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/12/19 at 09:13:01 6E4E4C44594E2B0 wrote:
A firearm can be, 'traced'. (To punish the criminal) The need to have every firearm in the USA, 'registered' in a central data base. Would only be necessary if someone wanted access to the central database, so they could go to every home, of every person, and know exactaly how many,and what every gun is they have. It would not stop a criminal, from committing a crime. That would be very beneficial to a Socialistic Government. Which has, altered, rewritten, eliminated, much of the Constitution. "For The Good Of The People" To know exactaly who has, and what they have, to they can, 'pick them up'. Of Course, 'For The Good Of The People'. Anyone who is not willing to accept the fact that guns, that are centrally registered will be taken away at some time. Means they are not capable of seeing reality. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/12/19 at 09:16:58 322C23222F322934460 wrote:
Already understand your, 'Common Sense' Gun laws are, PUNISH EVERYBODY ELSE, that uses those tools. And then coddle the criminal. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Serowbot on 08/12/19 at 09:31:48 40635E7D7F64636A0D0 wrote:
Tools.... ;D Right... "Hey Bill,.. pass me the AK, this lug nut's really stuck"... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 09:54:16 4C525D5C514C574A380 wrote:
Your bias clouds your vision. Sad.[/quote] Again, your ideas restrict nothing. Zero. Nada. Zilch. And history shows my vision is 20/20 compared to your Mr. Magoo eyesight when looking at the world so you can stow that. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 10:05:25 4D7F78696E7F68577B68711A0 wrote:
Your bias clouds your vision. Sad.[/quote] Again, your ideas restrict nothing. Zero. Nada. Zilch. Well, my idea is restriction mark... duh! I don't have a proposal on how to do that, only that it needs to be done. See how that works? And history shows my vision is 20/20 compared to your Mr. Magoo eyesight when looking at the world so you can stow that. [/quote] "Mr. Magoo"? Really? Are you happy you got your little jab in there? (hey, 20/20 guy, where's the proof you promised me about the whole "fine people on both sides", huh? Nah - nevermind, you'll never admit you're wrong...lol) |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/12/19 at 10:06:03 372926272A372C31430 wrote:
WHAT ?????? Did you just say: no local "gun safe zone" or local laws are going to stop them Do NOT work !!!!!!! (Not even a FOID card ?) Every single gun should be registered - no exceptions. Makes collecting them, 'for the Good of the People', much easier. safe to assume that there are other ways to "fingerprint" a gun Describe those ways ? Would they be like serial numbering every bullet and casing ? Just for some people to know, filing off a ser #, is not a absolute. Many, Many ways to recover what that number was. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 10:10:42 52714C6F6D7671781F0 wrote:
WHAT ?????? Did you just say: no local "gun safe zone" or local laws are going to stop them Do NOT work !!!!!!! (Not even a FOID card ?) No, mn - criminals, by definition, don't obey laws... duh. Every single gun should be registered - no exceptions. Makes collecting them, 'for the Good of the People', much easier. safe to assume that there are other ways to "fingerprint" a gun Describe those ways ? I don't know, but I know that there are indeed ways in the manufacturing process. Something as simple as the concept of RFID. Would they be like serial numbering every bullet and casing ? No. Just for some people to know, filing off a ser #, is not a absolute. Many, Many ways to recover what that number was. Oh, really? How so? [/quote] |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/12/19 at 10:20:56 273936373A273C21530 wrote:
Why ? Are YOU planning on filling off a Ser # ? So YOU know how to do it ? So it can't be recovered ? But wait, you know EVERYTHING about guns and gun law. Because. You have one !!!!!!!! So why are you asking ? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 10:31:12 1D3E032022393E37500 wrote:
Why ? Are YOU planning on filling off a Ser # ? So YOU know how to do it ? So it can't be recovered ? But wait, you know EVERYTHING about guns and gun law. Because. You have one !!!!!!!! So why are you asking ? Because I'm not aware of how to recover a serial if it's been filed off a gun. It's a simple question. You're the one who stated there are "Many, Many ways to recover what that number was." So? [/quote] |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/12/19 at 10:32:32 372926272A372C31430 wrote:
WHAT ?????? Did you just say: no local "gun safe zone" or local laws are going to stop them Do NOT work !!!!!!! (Not even a FOID card ?) 372926272A372C31430 wrote:
Just for further clarification, A Criminal sees a, 'No Guns Here' sign. they do NOT obey it ? In fact they see it as, 'shooting Fish in a Barrel', As they KNOW, people their, have NO MEANS of defending themselves. And no, laws, not even a FOID card, will have any determent on a, criminal ? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 10:43:16 04271A393B20272E490 wrote:
WHAT ?????? Did you just say: no local "gun safe zone" or local laws are going to stop them Do NOT work !!!!!!! (Not even a FOID card ?) 372926272A372C31430 wrote:
Just for further clarification, A Criminal sees a, 'No Guns Here' sign. they do NOT obey it ? In fact they see it as, 'shooting Fish in a Barrel', As they KNOW, people their, have NO MEANS of defending themselves. Yes, that's true - sadly. [/quote] And no, laws, not even a FOID card, will have any determent on a, criminal ? No, not really. They're criminals/lunatics. Their whole MO is to break the law. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 10:56:55 63407D5E5C4740492E0 wrote:
Why ? Are YOU planning on filling off a Ser # ? So YOU know how to do it ? So it can't be recovered ? But wait, you know EVERYTHING about guns and gun law. Because. You have one !!!!!!!! So why are you asking ? [/quote] Alright, so I did some digging. Pretty much the only 2 methods out there to recover a serial number off a gun is etching with acid and deep x ray. And that only works if the serial wasn't ground down too deep. I think your "Many, Many ways to recover what that number was" statement is false. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 11:01:44 "Mr. Magoo"? Really? Are you happy you got your little jab in there? (hey, 20/20 guy, where's the proof you promised me about the whole "fine people on both sides", huh? Nah - nevermind, you'll never admit you're wrong...lol) Aw come on man! That was funny..... Don't you think it was funny? I did. Okay, so what exactly are you crying for an apology over? I forget the details exactly. That I didn't read a long cut and paste you made? I confess, I did not. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 11:03:17 635156474051467955465F340 wrote:
Nevermind. You're simply not worth it. Thanks anyway. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/12/19 at 11:15:03 637D72737E637865170 wrote:
'Lifting', 'Raising' depends on the substance, the way/depth/heat used to remove. Than the chemical, the etching, the molecular arrangement. A great number of ways. Which 'real' (not tv) CSI types know all about. Why do you ask, because you know everything about guns, because you have one ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 11:35:44 10330E2D2F34333A5D0 wrote:
'Lifting', 'Raising' depends on the substance, the way/depth/heat used to remove. Than the chemical, the etching, the molecular arrangement. A great number of ways. Which 'real' (not tv) CSI types know all about. Why do you ask, because you know everything about guns, because you have one ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D [/quote] So, you were lying about "many, many". Thanks for clarifying. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/12/19 at 11:46:12 "Anyone who is not willing to accept the fact that guns, that are centrally registered will be taken away at some time. Means they are not capable of seeing reality." This discussion really belongs in a separate thread. Anyone that thinks the Government is going to go around kicking in doors to get registered firearms is living in the 1970's. Times have changed, technology, resources and wartime conventions have changed. The logistics of recovering guns from the civilian population is vast. It is considerably easier, more cost-effective and efficient to murder millions though bacterial and viral infection. It is near-untraceable, treatable, and very fast. In a few days LA, NY and Dallas would have a survival rate of less then one percent if they went all-out, even with something as low impact as Smallpox there isn't anything your gun will do about it, so having it unregistered is of no concern. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 12:00:45 I'll bet you're a barrel of fun at parties.... |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/12/19 at 12:02:25 302E21202D302B36440 wrote:
Nop ! Not my fault you don't understand something. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 12:12:55 63407D5E5C4740492E0 wrote:
Nop ! Not my fault you don't understand something. [/quote] First off... "Nop"? Second, you said, and I quote: "Many, Many ways to recover what that number was." So, there are basically 2 ways. You call that "many, many"? No. You were lying to try and make yourself look like an expert. Nice try, but you failed. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/12/19 at 13:47:09 "I'll bet you're a barrel of fun at parties.... " Me? I don't attend parties. I am just exposed to an environment where I see a different approach to Government control of large masses of the population. Cut power, Internet, Food, Water, introduce an enemy greater than the Government like disease. Quarantine is a process many will volunteer for. The rest perish. "I grow my own food." Not with C-130's dropping ground kill. Its been tested and it works incredible well. My shotgun won't stop those from flying overhead. "I don't vaccinate" Dead. "The military will rebel, they wont shoot their own citizens." They won't be asked to. For every one person infected 7 die. Enforce the quarantine or more die. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/12/19 at 14:24:48 5A444B4A475A415C2E0 wrote:
Great, your the expert, you know everything about guns, because you have one ! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 14:39:08 5E7E7C74697E1B0 wrote:
Why didn't we do that instead of wasting American lives in our War on Terror? Why do we have soldiers in Afghanistan still? Why don't we just take care of the Palestinian problem and give Israel plenty of room to flourish their Democracy in the Middle East? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 14:43:33 1F3C0122203B3C35520 wrote:
Great, your the expert, you know everything about guns, because you have one ! [/quote] I feel good proving that you lied. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 14:45:43 677976777A677C61130 wrote:
Nevermind. You're simply not worth it. Thanks anyway. [/quote] Okay, so what exactly are you crying for an apology over? I forget the details exactly. That I didn't read a long cut and paste you made? I confess, I did not. Nevermind. You're simply not worth it. Thanks anyway. You sure? I admit when I'm wrong and apologize when I need to. Not my fault it doesn't happen very often. I assumed you were one of those people who think Trump called Nazi's & white nationalist protesting 'very fine people'. I believe you confirmed that, didn't you? No, I didn't read your big cut and paste. Skimmed it at best. And by skim I mean looked at a few sentences... Come on, I don't want this to come between our friendship. We might go riding one day. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/12/19 at 15:00:56 524C43424F524954260 wrote:
Yep, your the expert, you know everything about guns, because you, SAY, you have one ! |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 15:05:24 566463727564734C60736A010 wrote:
Nevermind. You're simply not worth it. Thanks anyway. [/quote] Okay, so what exactly are you crying for an apology over? I forget the details exactly. That I didn't read a long cut and paste you made? I confess, I did not. Nevermind. You're simply not worth it. Thanks anyway. You sure? I admit when I'm wrong and apologize when I need to. Not my fault it doesn't happen very often. I assumed you were one of those people who think Trump called Nazi's & white nationalist protesting 'very fine people'. I believe you confirmed that, didn't you? No, I didn't read your big cut and paste. Skimmed it at best. And by skim I mean looked at a few sentences... Come on, I don't want this to come between our friendship. We might go riding one day.[/quote] Don't worry about it mark. Stop being so needy, huh? |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by Eegore on 08/12/19 at 15:16:26 "Why didn't we do that instead of wasting American lives in our War on Terror? Why do we have soldiers in Afghanistan still? Why don't we just take care of the Palestinian problem and give Israel plenty of room to flourish their Democracy in the Middle East?" The Biological Weapons Anti-Terrorism Act of 1989. https://www.congress.gov/bill/101st-congress/senate-bill/993/text What I am describing as a full-scale takedown of the US civilians capability to impact the US Government makes about as much sense as the CDC being able to study firearm-related deaths leading to Our Guns Being Taken Away. Or this idea that US militias will rise up an stop some martial law of some kind. That's not very likely to happen these days, times, communication, culture, theatre and convention have changed too much. Have any of you really thought about the logistics needed to take guns away by force? The only people that think they will fight off an organized invasion from their home with some AR's are just stroking their ego. Has anyone here even used force against potentially armed targets? One thing you don't do is assume they have less guns. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 16:29:04 160807060B160D10620 wrote:
Nevermind. You're simply not worth it. Thanks anyway. [/quote] Okay, so what exactly are you crying for an apology over? I forget the details exactly. That I didn't read a long cut and paste you made? I confess, I did not. Nevermind. You're simply not worth it. Thanks anyway. You sure? I admit when I'm wrong and apologize when I need to. Not my fault it doesn't happen very often. I assumed you were one of those people who think Trump called Nazi's & white nationalist protesting 'very fine people'. I believe you confirmed that, didn't you? No, I didn't read your big cut and paste. Skimmed it at best. And by skim I mean looked at a few sentences... Come on, I don't want this to come between our friendship. We might go riding one day.[/quote] Don't worry about it mark. Stop being so needy, huh?[/quote] You sure dude? Seems like has you by the short hairs. I'll do my part to ease your pain. Won't build you a ball field hiwever. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 18:12:25 684B7655574C4B42250 wrote:
Yep, your the expert, you know everything about guns, because you, SAY, you have one ! [/quote] I feel good proving that you lied. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 18:14:25 122027363120370824372E450 wrote:
Maybe reread what you post, mark. It doesn't make any sense..... If you're gonna try and mock me, try to be a little more mindful of how you do it, huh? ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by WebsterMark on 08/12/19 at 19:50:28 mocking?! No, concern. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/12/19 at 20:51:58 003235242332251A36253C570 wrote:
Oh, not to worry, mark. My life is good. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/13/19 at 16:51:55 5B454A4B465B405D2F0 wrote:
Yep WM is totally right in his on line statements about you. You know everything about guns, because you, SAY, you have one ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/13/19 at 18:27:29 5774496A6873747D1A0 wrote:
Yep WM is totally right in his on line statements about you. You know everything about guns, because you, SAY, you have one ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D [/quote] Well, mn, life is indeed good for me. I feel good proving that you lied. ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/14/19 at 10:15:25 617F70717C617A67150 wrote:
5 times you said I lied. Which I neither lied, and you did not prove anything. (Except to PROVE, how you believe; you’re right in supposition, and everyone else is wrong LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOO |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/14/19 at 10:49:44 14370A292B30373E590 wrote:
5 times you said I lied. Which I neither lied, and you did not prove anything. (Except to PROVE, how you believe; you’re right in supposition, and everyone else is wrong LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOO [/quote] Sorry, mn - but you did indeed lie. You said there are many, many ways to detect a serial number after it's been filed away on a gun. There's not. There are two, at most three. Three is not "many, many". You lied, I caught you - get over it. |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by MnSpring on 08/14/19 at 11:56:58 687679787568736E1C0 wrote:
Of Course, You know everything about Guns, because you, SAY, you have a gun As you say, you’re right and everyone else is wrong ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: At Least 9 Dead In Dayton Post by T And T Garage on 08/14/19 at 12:00:14 42615C7F7D6661680F0 wrote:
Of Course, You know everything about Guns, because you, SAY, you have a gun No, as a matter of fact, I even said "I'm not aware..." Once again, you're lying. Sheesh! As you say, you’re right and everyone else is wrong ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D[/quote] mn, seriously....You lied, I caught you - get over it. |
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