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› Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off center?
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Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off center? (Read 812 times)
RocketScienceSmurf
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #75 -
02/12/20 at 02:33:20
The more I learn and read about bearings it feels like caged needle roller bearings is completely wrong for mounting the rear swing arm. From an assembly point of view it makes sense but that's about it. It may not happen but I am contemplating having an adapter flange made so that I can use spherical plain bearings instead. It will probably prove to be too expensive but wouldn't a plain bearing be more suited for the task? There is no high speed rotation, only slight rocking up and down.
https://www.skf.com/us/products/plain-bearings/spherical-plain-bearings-rod-e...
Thoughts?
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splash07
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #76 -
02/12/20 at 06:21:07
You may be right about the needle bearing being overkill but I would not discount any torque put on the swing arm from the drive belt. Having the drive input on one side might mean that the pivot point takes more stress side to side, and the bearing helps to spread out that force over more surface area? Or not, and I'm overthinking it.
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RocketScienceSmurf
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #77 -
02/12/20 at 06:48:58
The original bearing has a static load specification of ~43kN
The SKF GEH 10 C has a static load specification of ~28kN which is probably more than enough (just an un-educated assumption I make) but most importantly they are maintenance free and from what I understand more suited for non-revolving applications.
I also think that the caged needle roller bearing need a very tightly fitted and hardened bushing to be able to support such heavy loads. My old bushings seem to show large amount of wear on just one side so I'm guessing there has been a considerable amount of play for a long time. A plain bearing probably wont show that kind of wear.
Again this is just speculation on my part but I doubt that the original bearing was chosen based on performance and longevity.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #78 -
02/12/20 at 08:18:31
They aren't usually a problem..
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RocketScienceSmurf
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #79 -
02/12/20 at 23:53:04
Here is a picture of the spacers I pulled out of my bike. I took some measurements of the pivot bolt and it is a 14mm OD bolt, so any bearing with at least 14mm ID should work ok.
[edit]
I have searched high and low and I think I have finally found a good alternative. NMB manufacture a spherical plain bearing with 29mm outer diameter (exactly the same as the original) and 14mm internal/shaft diameter that matches the original pivot bolt. I have contacted the to see what min order quantity is since it's not a stock item.
https://www.eminebea.com/en/product/bearing/spherical/mbytmbyt-v.shtml
I will have to add a seal in front of each bearing to keep moisture and dirt out but the bearings are supposed to be maintenance free if kept clean.
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spacers.png
«
Last Edit: 02/13/20 at 05:03:54 by RocketScienceSmurf
»
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RocketScienceSmurf
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #80 -
02/13/20 at 07:20:50
Here is a picture of the bearing races I finally managed to get out of the frame. You can see the cut from the Dremel. They don't see to be too badly affected by rust so the frame is probably still ok
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RocketScienceSmurf
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #81 -
02/13/20 at 07:41:13
I found a stock plain bearing that should work as far as I can see
https://www.mcgillmotorsport.com/m14-spherical-plain-bearing-gek14t-teflon-li...
I will continue to read up on bearings but I think this bearing may actually work. The price is right and for once available without having to import it from the US or Asia
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DragBikeMike
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #82 -
02/13/20 at 13:04:54
I think JOG provided an excellent comment. The stock bearings are not a problem. They are typical for this application, and found on most motorcycles. I think they fell victim to neglect, and possibly over aggressive cleaning practices (i.e. pressure washing). I suggest that you just get two new pivot bearings (Pc 2) and two new pivot spacers (Pc 4) and reassemble with a liberal dose of wheel bearing grease. It will probably outlast the motorcycle.
BTW, thanks very much for the pictures. Very informative.
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ohiomoto
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #83 -
02/13/20 at 19:18:13
I still think someone rode that bike underwater, more than once...
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RocketScienceSmurf
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #84 -
02/15/20 at 06:49:14
Here are some more pictures of the tools I took today while working on my bike. You can clearly see that the edge is not a 90 degree but rather something loser to 45 making the tool better for pushing bearings rather that pulling them
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RocketScienceSmurf
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #85 -
02/15/20 at 06:51:00
Another picture. I have visually inspected the frame tube that is holding the bearings and is doesn't look too bad at all so I think some new bearings will work just fine.
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Armen
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #86 -
02/16/20 at 03:59:49
The tool is called a blind end bearing puller. The reason the end is 45 degrees or so is so that the puller can wedge itself behind the bearing. As you force the puller open, it moves the bearing out slightly and gets a better purchase. If the end wasn't tapered, it wouldn't be able to get behind the bearing. Once the tool is opened up. the load of the bearing being pulled is on a thicker section of steel in the puller.
There is no way to use this as a bearing pusher. Only a puller.
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RocketScienceSmurf
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #87 -
02/16/20 at 06:47:46
All I know is that it worked great as a bearing pusher for me. I guess I was using it the wrong way and with that in mind I must caution anyone who wish to use it as a pusher but it did the trick for me.
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RocketScienceSmurf
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #88 -
02/18/20 at 23:17:43
I good friend of mine offered to make flanged bushings from "oilite" (not sure if this is the correct name for it) which is some kind of oil impregnated bronze material. The idea is to have a single bushings that fits the 29mm inside diameter of the tube and the 14mm diameter of the pivot bolt so I don't need any spacers or washers.
It means I wont make any modification to the bike and if this doesn't work I can easily order new roller bearings and bushings and make it like the original again.
To me it sounds like something worth trying but I value your input. Do you think I should give it a try?
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batman
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Re: Is it normal for the rear wheel to be off cent
Reply #89 -
02/19/20 at 00:53:25
Oilite can withstand 10,000 psi , it would be very good to use ,but should be greased on install . (early Honda 750K's used it for swing arms)
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my old work mates called me MacGyver
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