SuzukiSavage.com - Conservatives: which is more important?

MnSpring

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #75 - 03/26/19 at 16:54:30

LostArtist wrote on 03/26/19 at 14:38:20:

so as long as YOU have it, that's enough.....

and no, we don’t have 1 vote fore very legally registered person,
Yes their is. Every Legal registered Citizen.

not all legally registered people go vote,
Who’s problem is that ?

some are purged from the registration for partisan reasons,
No, and NO. If that happens, that person has a lot of options to remedy that.

some can’t get rides,
Who’s problem is that.

some don't have “proper” ID...
Who’s fault is that?
(Just ask any Democrat, they will get one for them)

denying felons the right to vote for the rest of their lives…
Yea, it’s called, Choice, their Choice, They LOST that RIGHT.

and not all who are eligible to vote, register to vote,
One more time,
Who’s fault is that !

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .

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Eegore

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #76 - 03/26/19 at 16:55:00

"not all legally registered people go vote"

There's no way I am willing to agree that my tax dollars should somehow go to a program that creates a way to get a vote out of someone who chooses not to.

"some are purged from the registration for partisan reasons, some can't get rides, some don't have "proper" ID"

If these can be modified I am for it. I am all for allowing Native Americans without USPS addresses to vote, I am all for digital voting commissions going to people who can't leave the home. How would this be paid for would be my primary concern as perpetuating a debt cycle will result in more deficiencies later.

"denying felons the right to vote for the rest of their lives"

I am only for denying currently incarcerated felons. I do not want my taxes going to creating a way to get a fair voting system implemented within the prison system based on cost alone. The years it would take to decide if they get to vote in the state they are incarcerated in, or born in, or registered in etc. is a lot to go through for people who commit crimes while grandma can't get food or to the voting booth. For that matter I'd rather the money be allocated to an Innocence Project that frees wrongly convicted persons before spending that money keeping them in prison but getting them a vote.

" just which do you consider to be more important in general everyday life, yes, you have both"

As I said before, if the parameter is one OR the other, then I would choose Capitalism first because equality is costly. They both exist, but only one is "more important"

To clarify:

Ranking, to me, is the prioritization of two or more subjects that are placed within a descending numerical structure based off of personal opinion. In this case I have two choices, Democracy AND Equality. I will call them C-1 for choice 1 and C-2 for choice 2.

In order to rank them I will categorize them numerically in my personal opinion scale that ranges from 1 being highest and descending in single whole number value to 2 being the lowest.

Given the choice to rank I must choose C-1 OR C-2 to take the number one spot within my numerical ranking structure. Thus I have a choice of C-1 OR C-2 which can also be stated as having a choice between Democracy OR Capitalism to take the number 1 spot. Both exist but only one can be priority.

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LostArtist

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #77 - 03/26/19 at 18:30:02

MnSpring wrote on 03/26/19 at 16:54:30:

LostArtist wrote on 03/26/19 at 14:38:20:

so as long as YOU have it, that's enough.....

and no, we don’t have 1 vote fore very legally registered person,
Yes their is. Every Legal registered Citizen.,

as explained IN THE VERY NEXT PART, NOT ALL LEGALLY REGISTERED PEOPLE VOTE, SO THEREFOR NOT EVERY LEGAL REGISTERED CITIZEN VOTES SO WE DON'T HAVE THOSE VOTES,
JIMMY F-ING CHRIST

not all legally registered people go vote,
Who’s problem is that ?

OURS, because we are not getting full participation of our citizens, meaning that a smaller group of people is making decisions for us ALL so we don't really have a representative republic because sometimes only 40% of the people being represented are voting so we have a MINORITY choosing our leaders and ruling over our population

some are purged from the registration for partisan reasons,
No, and NO. If that happens, that person has a lot of options to remedy that.

it has happened and it's going through the courts now, you know, AFTER it's too late to count their vote

some can’t get rides,
Who’s problem is that.

some don't have “proper” ID...
Who’s fault is that?
(Just ask any Democrat, they will get one for them)

denying felons the right to vote for the rest of their lives…
Yea, it’s called, Choice, their Choice, They LOST that RIGHT.

so one mistake and you lose your right to participate? better hope they keep that rule at felonly and don't lower it to say anyone with a speeding ticket ever.....

and not all who are eligible to vote, register to vote,
One more time,
Who’s fault is that !

ours, for having a system where you have to register to vote in the first place, you won't let the government have a registration of gun owners but voters and how they vote,sure, no problem....

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LostArtist

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #78 - 03/26/19 at 18:52:04

Eegore wrote on 03/26/19 at 16:55:00:

"not all legally registered people go vote"

There's no way I am willing to agree that my tax dollars should somehow go to a program that creates a way to get a vote out of someone who chooses not to.

there are ways to do it without spending money, make it compulsory to vote, yes, there are some countries where it's illegal NOT to vote... but we don't even have to get that extreme, make it a federal holiday, give tax incentives to companies that make voting easier for their employees, encourage schools to have mock election days, I'd rather have ANY of that than another tax cut for the rich that gives us the trillion dollar deficits.

"some are purged from the registration for partisan reasons, some can't get rides, some don't have "proper" ID"

If these can be modified I am for it. I am all for allowing Native Americans without USPS addresses to vote, I am all for digital voting commissions going to people who can't leave the home.

Smiley

How would this be paid for would be my primary concern as perpetuating a debt cycle will result in more deficiencies later.

did you care about that with the Trump tax cut fiasco? or the wars? (you might have, I don't remember so I am giving you the benefit of the doubt here, I know you don't care, but ,,,)

"denying felons the right to vote for the rest of their lives"

I am only for denying currently incarcerated felons. I do not want my taxes going to creating a way to get a fair voting system implemented within the prison system based on cost alone. The years it would take to decide if they get to vote in the state they are incarcerated in, or born in, or registered in etc. is a lot to go through for people who commit crimes while grandma can't get food or to the voting booth. For that matter I'd rather the money be allocated to an Innocence Project that frees wrongly convicted persons before spending that money keeping them in prison but getting them a vote.

at least that's something

" just which do you consider to be more important in general everyday life, yes, you have both"

As I said before, if the parameter is one OR the other, then I would choose Capitalism first because equality is costly.

again supporting my thesis that conservatives mainly care about money

They both exist, but only one is "more important"

To clarify:

Ranking, to me, is the prioritization of two or more subjects that are placed within a descending numerical structure based off of personal opinion. In this case I have two choices, Democracy AND Equality. I will call them C-1 for choice 1 and C-2 for choice 2.

In order to rank them I will categorize them numerically in my personal opinion scale that ranges from 1 being highest and descending in single whole number value to 2 being the lowest.

Given the choice to rank I must choose C-1 OR C-2 to take the number one spot within my numerical ranking structure. Thus I have a choice of C-1 OR C-2 which can also be stated as having a choice between Democracy OR Capitalism to take the number 1 spot. Both exist but only one can be priority.

dear f-ing Christ!!!! it's not that fuc king hard! quit being a prick about it

I don't even know what the hell you said above, but I'll answer for you, you think capitalism is more important because you like MONEY, and are fine with the way things are. I will not be reading any more of your replies, you are giving me a freaking headache, next time I ask you something I'll draw you a picture and explain it binary

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Eegore

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #79 - 03/26/19 at 19:35:28

"make it compulsory to vote"

Enforce it by what means? Legal action = tax dollars = cost.

"make it a federal holiday"

Must be unpaid or tax dollars are spent to pay Federal employees to not work. So it can be a Holiday, but not a Federal or all non-essential staff get paid holiday leave = tax dollars = cost.

"give tax incentives to companies that make voting easier for their employees?"

Tax dollars to incentivize = tax dollars = cost.

"I'd rather have ANY of that than another tax cut for the rich that gives us the trillion dollar deficits"

I agree, but I do not agree that is a result of Capitalism in exclusivity. Opposite taxation structuring has been done in the past to increase economic growth which is also part of a Capitalist system.

"did you care about that with the Trump tax cut fiasco? or the wars?"

Yes, I have outlined in multiple posts my opinions about trade deficit rationalization using WTO data.

"and are fine with the way things are"

Incorrect. I stated in this thread that I think certain changes should be made to make voting more accessible. I have actually changed law in my state, contributed to national policy in medical regulation, have worked and succeeded in removing from office elected officials that enacted laws contradictory to their constituents, all things I have stated on these boards before. Those are not actions of someone who is fine with things the way they are.

I do not however think those things can happen for free, but I may be wrong. I am open to ideas of how to implement social programs at no cost.

"dear f-ing Christ!!!! it's not that fuc king hard! quit being a prick about it"

I am trying to explain that you are not offering an equal option for opinion (ranking) for the two subjects you provide. You want one OR the other to be "more important". You are not allowing for both to be unimportant or equally important.

That means we pick one OR the other to be "more important" If that's being a prick maybe you should look at who made the rules of choice for this topic.

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WebsterMark Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 13177 Gender:	Re: Conservatives: which is more important? Reply #80 - 03/27/19 at 04:43:33 if morals were your main concern, you wouldn't have voted for Trump... or Clinton, you probably wouldn't be very political at all That's absolute nonsense.
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LostArtist

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #81 - 03/27/19 at 10:13:22

Eegore wrote on 03/26/19 at 19:35:28:

"make it compulsory to vote"

Enforce it by what means? Legal action = tax dollars = cost.

"make it a federal holiday"

Must be unpaid or tax dollars are spent to pay Federal employees to not work. So it can be a Holiday, but not a Federal or all non-essential staff get paid holiday leave = tax dollars = cost.

"give tax incentives to companies that make voting easier for their employees?"

Tax dollars to incentivize = tax dollars = cost.

"I'd rather have ANY of that than another tax cut for the rich that gives us the trillion dollar deficits"

I agree, but I do not agree that is a result of Capitalism in exclusivity. Opposite taxation structuring has been done in the past to increase economic growth which is also part of a Capitalist system.

"did you care about that with the Trump tax cut fiasco? or the wars?"

Yes, I have outlined in multiple posts my opinions about trade deficit rationalization using WTO data.

"and are fine with the way things are"

Incorrect. I stated in this thread that I think certain changes should be made to make voting more accessible. I have actually changed law in my state, contributed to national policy in medical regulation, have worked and succeeded in removing from office elected officials that enacted laws contradictory to their constituents, all things I have stated on these boards before. Those are not actions of someone who is fine with things the way they are.

I do not however think those things can happen for free, but I may be wrong. I am open to ideas of how to implement social programs at no cost.

so what if it has a cost, putting capitalism first also has a cost. tax cuts are a cost, etc...

as long as it's free to you, you don't care... then I'd say you just plain don't care. you are fine with implementing economic programs at a cost but not social.. hence you consider money more than other things, hence, you're greedy, deal with it

oh, and the legal action could be a fine that offsets the cost to administer it.

"dear f-ing Christ!!!! it's not that fuc king hard! quit being a prick about it"

I am trying to explain that you are not offering an equal option for opinion (ranking) for the two subjects you provide. You want one OR the other to be "more important". You are not allowing for both to be unimportant or equally important.

That means we pick one OR the other to be "more important" If that's being a prick maybe you should look at who made the rules of choice for this topic.

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"You are not allowing for both to be unimportant or equally important. "

you're right, I"M NOT
what's the point of ranking two things that are equal??? I like yellow more than yellow... I like apples more than apples.... well NO SH!T .

that being said, you can always cop out and pull a Webster saying, they both need to exist for them to be most effective....

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LostArtist

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #82 - 03/27/19 at 10:36:37

let's say you're a government, and you have limited resources, as governments do, considering nothing but SUBJECTIVE importance, (also assuming both have EXCACTLY the same cost) which do you do first, TIME is a resource, you cannot multitask and do both at the same time.

work on getting more people involved in expressing their voice in government by participating in voting so you have a more truly representative government

or

find ways to increase economic activity with the only concern being an increase of profits to the private sector

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WebsterMark

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #83 - 03/27/19 at 11:15:51

LostArtist wrote on 03/27/19 at 10:36:37:

let's say you're a government, and you have limited resources, as governments do, considering nothing but SUBJECTIVE importance, (also assuming both have EXCACTLY the same cost) which do you do first, TIME is a resource, you cannot multitask and do both at the same time.

work on getting more people involved in expressing their voice in government by participating in voting so you have a more truly representative government

or

find ways to increase economic activity with the only concern being an increase of profits to the private sector

What would be the point of exploring that question when you're just going to end up misquoting what we say and in the end, type a bunch of 1's and 0's. Answer it yourself.

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Eegore

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #84 - 03/27/19 at 20:18:53

"so what if it has a cost, putting capitalism first also has a cost. tax cuts are a cost, etc... "

I agree. However I think by putting Capitalism first we can fund social programs more efficiently than implementing social programs that we figure out how to sustain later. Historically creating a program then funding it has been less successful than funding a program first.

"as long as it's free to you, you don't care..."

I never said that. I said I think social programs are important but should be funded prior to implementation. Going way back to my very first assessment this has been about sustainability:

So given both are present Capitalism, at this time, is of more importance specifically to creating a recovering economical horizon that could be sustainable.

"you are fine with implementing economic programs at a cost but not social"

I never said that. Again I think they should be funded appropriately prior to implementation.

"hence you consider money more than other things"

I consider funding. I agree funding is money. For instance I would rather fund the SANE (rape-kit) backlog issue instead of perpetuating the debt cycle that caused it in the first place.

"well NO SHI T SHERLOCK!!!! THERE IS NO FUC KING REASON TO COMPARE THINGS THAT ARE EQUAL, THEY ARE EQUAL, WHICH DO YOU LIKE, YELLOR OR YELLOW..... WHICH DO YOU LIKE MORE A TRUCK OR A TRUCK.... but that doesn't mean I'm saying they are exclusionary of each other. MORE IMPORTANT doesn't mean the other option doesn't exist, I like my burgers both hot and with ketchup, but being hot is more important than the ketchup"

I never said the other option didn't exist, an you are clearly mistaking "Equal" for "Identical". A Truck and a Car can have "Equal" value but are not the same thing. A Yellow Truck and a Red Truck can have "Equal" importance, unless... it is stated one must be more important than the other then its either a Yellow Truck OR a Red Truck.

I am saying the choice as I interpret it is to choose one OR the other as more important. You replied by saying:

"NOPE"

So if NOPE is the answer then I do not think one or the other is important. If "NOPE" isn't the answer then I think Capitalism is more important, at this time, to maintain sustainability of any program since the US debt cycle is increasing, not decreasing.

To use your helmet analogy there are no parts mentioned twice, but only one OR the other can take first priority.

"I like my burgers both hot and with ketchup, but being hot is more important than the ketchup"

So if you have a parameter to choose one as more important one chooses the hot burger, OR, the cold burger.

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« Last Edit: 03/28/19 at 08:58:14 by Eegore »

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Eegore

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #85 - 03/27/19 at 20:34:37

"oh, and the legal action could be a fine that offsets the cost to administer it."

I find it interesting that you are ok with creating a financial consequence for those that choose not to vote. Would the requirement to choose one of the available candidates be considered Democracy?

I have always gone with the "If you don't vote you can't complain" route.

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LostArtist

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #86 - 03/29/19 at 14:29:01

from another thread but brining it here where it's relevant:

"In another thread there is discussion about Capitalism vs. Democracy which as far as I can tell is about spending money to make more money or spending money on US citizens when you get through all the name calling and profanity."

the profanity is because you still don't get it....

NO, it's not about "spending money."

last time:

ignore, if you can, the realistic fact that we need money to run government (cause that's not always the case and even so, there's always plenty of money, to borrow, tax, print whatever...) ignore OUR real problems, OUR real government, this is a HYPOTHETICAL brain exercise, no one is going to hold you to this in any way shape or form

in some fantasy world, where all else is equal, the government isn't in debt, everything is offset by totally magical and equitable taxes or other means of income and all spending is balanced and justified.

so, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL

it's what is more important

government Making Profits for you or anyone/thing else

or

governing from a more representative social contract a community shares.

would you rather have your government focus on making profits for private entitiess, you yourself included

or

would you rather have your government uphold, enforce, encourage, etc... a shared set of values your community(national/local etc..) has agreed to

and yes, there are hundreds of varying shades of grey in all of that.... and some choices can do both, and so on and so on, but in general...

profit or social integrity

maybe another way to look at this, you are setting up a government, do you set it up to maximize capitalism or maximize fair representation of the community being governed

for simplicity's sake, use ONE WORD to answer, PICK ONE, democracy or capitalism, SAY NOTHING ELSE

but honestly..... I'm so done with this.... you can't bring yourself to make a simple binary choice without blabbing about this or that or whatever excuse you want for not answering

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Eegore

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #87 - 03/29/19 at 16:11:09

I already answered this when you posed it in a similar fashion:

"let's put this another way....

which is more important, humane equal treatment of your fellow human

or

profit "

I stated:

"Humane equal treatment"

Given money has no bearing since its "magical and equitable" in this posing of the question Capitalism has no value, or if looked at another way it has infinite value.

In this posing of the question Democracy is the best answer for me.

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LostArtist

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Re: Conservatives: which is more important?
Reply #88 - 03/29/19 at 16:37:01

Eegore wrote on 03/29/19 at 16:11:09:

I already answered this when you posed it in a similar fashion:

"let's put this another way....

which is more important, humane equal treatment of your fellow human

or

profit "

I stated:

"Humane equal treatment"

Given money has no bearing since its "magical and equitable" in this posing of the question Capitalism has no value, or if looked at another way it has infinite value.

In this posing of the question Democracy is the best answer for me.

yes, which lead to another rephrasing of this question where you answered:

"would rather have Equality without Profitability or Profitability without Equality

Profitability without Equality."

so.....????????

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28707 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: Conservatives: which is more important? Reply #89 - 03/29/19 at 16:59:22 I would say equality is a bit much,.... fairness and humanity is a more achievable goal...
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