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This otta go over (Read 98 times)
LostArtist
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Re: This otta go over
Reply #15 - 11/16/18 at 13:07:35
 
listen, I'm willing to give you that there were many causes of the Civil War and that on it's face slavery was rallying cry for the abolishionist north and that Lincoln hid behind that, but a lot of the other reasons, the economic differences, for example, kind of all stem from slavery, without slaves the economy of the South would've looked completely different,  so the tariff threatening to be imposed was a reaction to that economy, based on slaves.

I don't know why you are so hell bent on eliminating slavery as a main cause of the Civil War.  you're not pro-slavery, I know you aren't

slavery, literally divided the nation, there was the Missouri Compromise

hell, here:





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verslagen1
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Re: This otta go over
Reply #16 - 11/16/18 at 13:17:23
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/15/18 at 15:16:08:
Juan Motyme,

SINCE the government HAD the Authority to enact a TARIFF, the south COULDN'T use that to justify their secession.

So, you're saying that the New Guys who replaced the people who retired voted For a tariff?
The law that supported slavery was strengthened when the tariff went through.

You don't suppose someone is trying to keep you believing it's about slavery, do you?

20 union states vs 7 southern states or 27 total
so if the congressmen from 7 states quit, there is no replacement (which would be the responsibility of the governor to reassign)
If it was 50/50 republican/democrat, that would be 27/27 (senators) after secession, 27/13 assuming all so. states were d.

And lost... we know how long it takes to get a contested bill thru... so it's not inconceivable that the tariff caused the south to secede due to it.  And I think the Brits would accept any reason to cause the upstarts some grief.  It will take a closer look at documents written at the time to discern the cause of the war.
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LostArtist
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Re: This otta go over
Reply #17 - 11/16/18 at 15:24:03
 
verslagen1 wrote on 11/16/18 at 13:17:23:
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 11/15/18 at 15:16:08:
Juan Motyme,

SINCE the government HAD the Authority to enact a TARIFF, the south COULDN'T use that to justify their secession.

So, you're saying that the New Guys who replaced the people who retired voted For a tariff?
The law that supported slavery was strengthened when the tariff went through.

You don't suppose someone is trying to keep you believing it's about slavery, do you?

20 union states vs 7 southern states or 27 total
so if the congressmen from 7 states quit, there is no replacement (which would be the responsibility of the governor to reassign)
If it was 50/50 republican/democrat, that would be 27/27 (senators) after secession, 27/13 assuming all so. states were d.

And lost... we know how long it takes to get a contested bill thru... so it's not inconceivable that the tariff caused the south to secede due to it.  And I think the Brits would accept any reason to cause the upstarts some grief.  It will take a closer look at documents written at the time to discern the cause of the war.


here's the Wiki on it: I just edited an important part of the break down

House actions

Justin Smith Morrill
When the 36th Congress met in 1859, action remained blocked by a wrangle over the Speaker of the House until 1860, when Republican William Pennington of New Jersey was elected. A pro-tariff Republican majority was appointed to Ways and Means, and John Sherman of Ohio became chairman.

The Morrill bill was passed out of committee and brought up for a floor vote near the end of first session of the Congress (December 1859 – June 1860).

The vote was on May 10, 1860; the bill passed by a vote of 105 to 64.[4]

The vote was largely but not entirely sectional. Republicans, all from the northern states, voted 89–2 for the bill. They were joined by 7 northern Democrats from New York, New Jersey, and Pennsylvania. Five of these were "anti-Lecompton Democrats" (dissident Democrats who opposed the pro-slavery Lecompton constitution for Kansas).

14 northern Democrats voted against the bill.

In the Border States, 4 "Opposition" Representatives from Kentucky voted for it, as did its co-sponsor Winter of Maryland, a Maryland "Unionist", and a Democrat from Delaware. 8 Border state Democrats and an "American" from Missouri voted no.

35 southern Democrats and 3 Oppositionists voted against it; one Oppositionist from Tennessee voted for it.

Thus the sectional breakdown was 96–15 in the north, 7–9 in the Border, and 1–39 in the south.

There were 55 abstentions, including 13 Republicans, 12 northern Democrats, 13 southern Democrats, and 8 southern "Oppositionists" and "Americans". (The remaining Representatives were mostly "paired" with opposing Representatives who could not be present.[5]

Senate action
The Morrill bill was sent on to the Senate. However, the Senate was controlled by Democrats, and so the bill was bottled up in the Finance Committee, chaired by Robert M. T. Hunter of Virginia.

This insured that the Senate vote would be put off till the second session in December. It also meant that the tariff would be a prominent issue in the 1860 election.[6]

1860 election
The Republican party included a strong pro-tariff plank in its 1860 platform. They also sent prominent tariff advocates such as Morrill and Sherman to campaign in Pennsylvania and New Jersey, where the tariff was popular, by touting the Morrill bill. Both Democratic candidates, John C. Breckinridge and Stephen Douglas, opposed all high tariffs and protectionism in general.[7]

Historian Reinhard H. Luthin documents the importance of the Morrill Tariff to the Republicans in the 1860 presidential election.[8] Abraham Lincoln's record as a protectionist and support for the Morrill Tariff bill, he notes, helped him to secure support in the important electoral college state of Pennsylvania, as well as neighboring New Jersey. Lincoln carried Pennsylvania handily in November, as part of his sweep of the North.

On February 14, 1861, President-elect Lincoln told an audience in Pittsburgh that he would make a new tariff his priority in the next session if the bill did not pass by inauguration day on March 4.

Renewed Senate action
The second session of the 36th Congress began in December 1860. At first it appeared that Hunter would keep the Morrill bill tabled until the end of the term in March.

However, in December 1860 and January 1861, seven southern states declared secession, and their low-tariff Senators withdrew. Republicans took control of the Senate in February, and Hunter lost his hold on the Finance Committee.

Meanwhile, the Treasury was in financial crisis, with less than $500,000 on hand and millions in unpaid bills. The Union urgently needed new revenue. A recent historian concludes, "the impetus for revising the tariff arose as an attempt to augment revenue, stave off 'ruin,' and address the accumulating debt."[9]

The Morrill bill was brought to the Senate floor for a vote on February 20, and passed 25 to 14. The vote was split almost completely down party lines. It was supported by 24 Republicans and Democrat William Bigler of Pennsylvania. It was opposed by 10 Southern Democrats, 2 Northern Democrats, and 2 Far West Democrats. 12 Senators abstained, including 3 Northern Democrats, 1 California Democrat, 5 Southern Democrats, 2 Republicans, and 1 Unionist from Maryland.[10]

There were some minor amendments related to the tariffs on tea and coffee, which required a conference committee with the House, but these were resolved and the final bill was approved by unanimous consent on March 2.

Though a Democrat himself, outgoing President James Buchanan favored the bill because of the interests of his home state, Pennsylvania. He signed the bill into law as one of his last acts in office.

Adoption and amendments
The Morrill Tariff took effect one month after it was signed into law. Besides setting tariff rates, the bill altered and restricted the Warehousing Act of 1846.

The Morrill Tariff was drafted and passed the House before the Civil War began or was even expected, and was passed by the Senate almost unchanged. Thus it should not be considered "Civil War" legislation.[11]

In fact, the Tariff proved to be too low for the revenue needs of the Civil War, and was quickly supplanted by the Second Morrill Tariff, or Revenue Act of 1861, later that fall.[12]
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« Last Edit: 11/16/18 at 16:26:27 by LostArtist »  
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LostArtist
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Re: This otta go over
Reply #18 - 11/16/18 at 15:24:49
 
regardless of all that, the ill will towards the south had started BECAUSE THEY HAD SLAVES

as I said before, Slavery literally divided the United States into a North "FREE" and South Slavery,

"The Missouri Compromise was an effort by Congress to defuse the sectional and political rivalries triggered by the request of Missouri late in 1819 for admission as a state in which slavery would be permitted. At the time, the United States contained twenty-two states, evenly divided between slave and free."

The issue of slavery was a MAIN driver of the discord between the states for DECADES before the Morrill Tariff


so, okay, the Morril Tarriff might have been the "spark" that set off the war, but it was far from the main dividing issue
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: This otta go over
Reply #19 - 11/16/18 at 16:53:42
 
But Lincoln didn't care.
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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