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Some ideas to think about (Read 184 times)
Eegore
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #15 - 08/01/18 at 11:17:54
 

 In theory would it be possible to have your elected officials come up with a percentage of your money that is to be allocated to various funds that you choose from?

 For instance planned Parenthood is out for some, but Agriculture or Women's Shelters could be acceptable.  So if you are choosing where the money goes, is it theft?

 You elected the government so the tax burden is 50 percent your doing, I am asking specifically in relation to the originally posted article that indicates that if a government official allocates your money to agriculture or any funds not of your choosing.

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WebsterMark
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #16 - 08/01/18 at 14:26:10
 
Serowbot wrote on 08/01/18 at 08:32:07:
Kill the poor... Huh


Exactly; Planned Parenthood's mission statement.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #17 - 08/01/18 at 14:29:02
 
if you don't know much about Walter E Williams, you should read up on him. When he talks about government stealing money, what he's really referring to is his suggestion,  that a couple of congressmen have actually submit it as a legislation, which is known as the enumerated powers act.    

basically the suggeslaw says every appropriations from Congress must cite chapter and verse from the US constitution giving them authority to spend the public's money.
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #18 - 08/01/18 at 23:44:14
 
Eegore points out something important; either every cent the government take as tax (term used broadly) is theft, or every cent is going to the better for society.

Yes, I know that is simplistic, but if you think about it, everything else is opinions.

If you say no to taxes, you also say no to government, which again says no to laws and any kind of welfare. In other words, you have anarchy.

If you say yes to taxes, you invariably will feel that some of your money is wasted on "useless" things. However, what you consider useless, another will think of as money well spent, meaning what you consider stealing is nothing more than an opinion. So your only two weapons will be who you vote for and/or trying to get into a position of power where you can change the system from within.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #19 - 08/02/18 at 04:45:13
 
Again, the Enumerated Powers Act is a response to that.

Certainly you can't be against all taxes, that's unreasonable. However, I like the concept behind the act. Basically the suggested law says every appropriations from Congress must cite chapter and verse from the US constitution giving them authority to spend the public's money.

In reality would it accomplish anything? No. The tenth amendment is completely ignored and I suspect this one would be too.
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LostArtist
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #20 - 08/02/18 at 09:50:36
 
wouldn't they all just cite the Preamble:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
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Eegore
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #21 - 08/02/18 at 10:33:12
 

 I think any tax for digital tech, or space travel etc. would be hard to find in the Constitution, unless it is viewed in broad enough terms to include concepts and freedoms unimaginable at the time the Constitution was written.  

 So pretty much anything could be connected to the Constitution if the interpretation is broad enough.
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MnSpring
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #22 - 08/02/18 at 12:37:55
 
“…I think any tax for digital tech, or space travel etc. would be hard to find in the Constitution…”
“… unimaginable at the time the Constitution was written…”


Yep.
Have Never heard anybody say:
’The Constitution is outdated/obsolete, because it says nothing about space travel’.

Yet have heard, MANY,  people say that some:
‘Amendments are, ‘outdated/obsolete’,
because they don’t stay a specific thing,
about a specific kind of thing.

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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Eegore
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #23 - 08/02/18 at 14:05:28
 
 I've heard the same thing.  I base my outdated/obsolete assessments on actual modern use, and suggest alterations that prepare them for the future.  Instead of expecting the future to apply to the past.

 So to apply this to the actual topic presented and not ones in other threads - If the Constitution is to be interpreted broadly enough to apply to all aspects of modern society, and all possible future aspects, then it would be very easy to make any future tax plan apply.  Especially using the method behind the Enumerated Powers Act.
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WebsterMark
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #24 - 08/02/18 at 14:10:30
 
Eegore wrote on 08/02/18 at 10:33:12:
 I think any tax for digital tech, or space travel etc. would be hard to find in the Constitution, unless it is viewed in broad enough terms to include concepts and freedoms unimaginable at the time the Constitution was written.  

 So pretty much anything could be connected to the Constitution if the interpretation is broad enough.


Good point, hadn't considered NASA. Under the enumerated powers act,
the government couldn't fund NASA, it would have to be private.
Now, I would say we would be worse off without NASA because while private firms may be able to take this task on today, I'm not sure about in 1960.

I may need to rethink my opinion of that act which I thought was a good idea, at least from an academic point of view.
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MnSpring
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #25 - 08/02/18 at 16:14:45
 
A question.

Planed Parenthood, started as a, private, origination.

When did it become a recipient, of tax payer money.

And when was the tax payer money, authorized,  to fund the killing of babies ?

Would that be like, the local County, Paying 3.5 MILLION, for a piece of property, which was taxed at a value of 900 thousand, with, NO, None, NADA, Public impute.
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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T And T Garage
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #26 - 08/02/18 at 16:17:35
 
MnSpring wrote on 08/02/18 at 16:14:45:
A question.

Planed Parenthood, started as a, private, origination.

When did it become a recipient, of tax payer money.

And when was the tax payer money, authorized,  to fund the killing of babies ?

Would that be like, the local County, Paying 3.5 MILLION, for a piece of property, which was taxed at a value of 900 thousand, with, NO, None, NADA, Public impute.


You should really start another thread for this.
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LostArtist
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #27 - 08/02/18 at 16:33:41
 
MnSpring wrote on 08/02/18 at 16:14:45:
A question.

Planed Parenthood, started as a, private, origination.

When did it become a recipient, of tax payer money.

aren't banks and automakers and farmers all private organizations too, they all get tax payer money


And when was the tax payer money, authorized,  to fund the killing of babies ?

tax payer money doesn't go to kill babies, but it does go to medicaid and medical services that are legally covered by tax payer funds.  Now is there some blurring of the lines in Planned Parenthood's ledger.. probably not but some would vehemently disagree, and does that tax payer money allow them to broach the subject of abortion with their clients that are their for other things, maybe, but the client probably brings it up first, in most cases anyway. But how is that any different then when the Feds give money to a state for education and the state then uses that money to balance their budget instead?  Block grant money is given to states for welfare and it's often re-distributed into other programs just nominally related, helping almost no one.


Would that be like, the local County, Paying 3.5 MILLION, for a piece of property, which was taxed at a value of 900 thousand, with, NO, None, NADA, Public impute.

this happens all the time, just recently in Texas City, Valero bought the BP plant for whatever number of Millions it was, then refuted the tax estimate and got it devalued so they ended up paying like 1/10th of taxes....  


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LostArtist
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #28 - 08/02/18 at 16:36:51
 
Eegore wrote on 08/02/18 at 10:33:12:
 I think any tax for digital tech, or space travel etc. would be hard to find in the Constitution, unless it is viewed in broad enough terms to include concepts and freedoms unimaginable at the time the Constitution was written.  

 So pretty much anything could be connected to the Constitution if the interpretation is broad enough.



First, you all don't give the constitution enough credit, and Second, we can always amend the constitution, and Third, does every law have to be a constitutional amendment to be taken seriously????  There's nothing in the Constitution about Rape and Murder and Theft either....
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MnSpring
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Re: Some ideas to think about
Reply #29 - 08/02/18 at 16:42:43
 
LostArtist wrote on 08/02/18 at 16:33:41:
"...  tax payer money doesn't go to kill babies,..."


WOW, O,  I know the South part of TX boarders of the Gulf.

However I found some lots in the  NORTH half of TX, that are Ocean Front,  
Ya want to BUY some ???


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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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