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How do you measure energy...???? (Read 192 times)
raydawg
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #15 - 03/06/18 at 13:51:55
 
Ok, ok..... I guys are getting close, I think.
As we are now, in all know forms, it’s not possible to achieve the type of travel, motion, to real beat time, right?
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #16 - 03/06/18 at 14:51:27
 
verslagen1 wrote on 03/06/18 at 13:08:58:
The only other possibility are atomic rockets.  But being reaction motor means they'll need to collect matter along the way in order to be self sufficient.  Not much matter floating in the vacuum of space.  Such a proposition would mean they would need to capture small asteroids along the way.

Warp and hyper speed are simply wishes.  

I wouldn't go that far.  
"In general relativity there are potential means of FTL travel, but they may be impossible to make work.  It is thought highly unlikely that engineers will be building space ships with FTL drives in the foreseeable future, if ever, but it is curious that theoretical physics as we presently understand it seems to leave the door open to the possibility."
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/FTL.html
Until then though, solar sails, ion propulsion, nuclear are our best bets probably.

Which means interstellar travel requires generations to get to the next galaxy.  Or hibernation which pretty much eliminates the supplies issue.  Or one needs to carry their ecosystem with them.  Another plus to capturing a small asteroid, but bigger.  Not only serving as propellant, but shielding for an over-sized ecosystem.  The larger it is, the slower it is to accelerate.  Emergency maneuvers? forgetaboutit.

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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #17 - 03/06/18 at 16:54:27
 
Ya'll left out something.
After Jesus returns He is going to close out this space and time; "all the elements will melt with intense heat", and create a new heaven and earth.  It is then, I suspect, that we who believe will be able to travel the universe at the speed of thought ... think it, and you are there.
Yep.  😉
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #18 - 03/06/18 at 19:29:48
 
LANCER wrote on 03/06/18 at 16:54:27:
Ya'll left out something.
After Jesus returns He is going to close out this space and time; "all the elements will melt with intense heat", and create a new heaven and earth.  It is then, I suspect, that we who believe will be able to travel the universe at the speed of thought ... think it, and you are there.
Yep.  😉


I like your thinking, I’m sold  Grin

However, in the meanwhile.......
Man is bent on trying to find out the meaning of life, and expanding his understanding appears to be geared toward searching our universe.
All one needs to do is glance at the nights sky on a clear night.
Our minds really can’t even grasp what it sees.
Some of the images, undeniably real to our eyes, could very well only be an imagine of what use to be there, IF everything in the universe could be “encompassed” under the same moment, or constraints, of time.
This very fact is why man must conquer time, before anything else is possible.
In effect, once we can remove time as a constrainting enflunce, our present day clock, and using it to measure, will be obsolete.

Not wanting to go down this avenue of thought yet, but it will override all facts that man currently uses to date himself, AND, the planet he lives on...

Ok, back to traveling and energy.

I sorta touched on this in the telescope thread.
Unused energy, a source so great, and complex, already exsist in a dormant form.... Like that static electricity I talked about.
This source can create itself, almost like pepetual motion, in a sense.....

It’s own seed.

Within its matter lies the “future” when mated with the other element of a woman.
If, somehow, we use the the energy in this seed, to continuiously “clone” itself, to provide the link to the future where it’s energy will be “spent”, you have effectively created a perpetual energy source, do you see it?

Now....
It gets messy.
We effectively have removed one extremely important element that only is known to exsist in man....
Freewill.
He has at this point been reduced to something in the effect of, artificial intelligence, or life....

Is anybody with me?  Grin
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #19 - 03/06/18 at 20:07:17
 
I think we can assume our solar system IS the result of some type of power source, yes?

Gravity.


How do we fix that?

You problem is that space is big and things are far away and there's nothing we can do to fix that.

The best source of energy would be one of perpetual motion, yes?

Not really because perpetual motion machines cannot exist which is why the patent office won't consider a patent for one. In the past any shyster could patent a perpetual motion machine and use the patent application as some sort of 'proof' that their idea is valid then on the basis of the patent they could fleece investors. So that can't happen any longer.

Energy is the ability to do work and power is how fast you can deliver it. But work is defined as moving something against a force. In the case of leaving the Earth's gravity energy is required to overcome that force. If you get up to enough speed you can break out of the Earth's gravitation influence.

Once you've done that you can coast the rest of the way because it doesn't take any energy at all to keep moving in space. Only if you want to accelerate does that take energy. However anything more than 10 meters per second per second (1G) for an extended period of time is dangerous. You will die. So to get up to a decent speed it takes a long long time, and you need an equal time to slow back down again. Accelerating requires energy

Also if you are travelling really fast then a microscopic speck of space dust will explode your vessel. To travel to another planet assuming we knew one that was worth travelling to would take a few generations. We'd probably need to gather fuel along the way in the form of hydrogen atoms that we could strip the electrons off then shoot them out the back with a magnetic ion accelerator. This is pretty gentle.

Realistically the human species will perish on Earth, don't take Star Trek too seriously.
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #20 - 03/06/18 at 20:12:23
 
I agree with you in total? That is why we have to overcome time......
As a measurement.
It constraints us to its physical limitations.
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #21 - 03/06/18 at 20:19:58
 
Don't make the Newtonian mistake of thinking that Time and Space are completely different things. As hard as it is to wrap our heads around it the fact is that Time is a dimension of space. In fact physicists do not refer to time but to Spacetime.

If you get up from you chair and start walking then time for you is slowing down. Time slows down if you move relative to a clock that stays put, and time slows down in a gravitational field. So with the GPS satellites, the fact that they are whizzing around at a big speed means that their clocks tick slower and that has to be factored in. Also because they are further away from the gravitational field of the Earth so their clocks are also speeding up. However they are slowing down more than they are speeding up. If we did not take into account the gravitational and speed time dilations then your gps would be out by miles every day.

raydawg wrote on 03/06/18 at 20:12:23:
I agree with you in total? That is why we have to overcome time......
As a measurement.
It constraints us to its physical limitations.
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #22 - 03/06/18 at 20:41:01
 
Ok, using your reasoning.....
Is the cup half full, or half empty?

Let me ask it this way perhaps.

From the moment we are born, we are dying then, yes?

At which point of our life then, can we say our journey through it, is halfway through?
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #23 - 03/06/18 at 20:47:02
 
A powerful emissary of the gods once cursed a man that he would die in 7 days. The cursed man was happy and smiling. The emissary asked him why he was so happy knowing he only has 7 days to live. He said that he knows for certain that he will live for 7 days, nobody else has a guarantee that they will wake up the next morning.
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #24 - 03/06/18 at 21:10:44
 
Hey, I like the reasoning behind that, sweet..,.
But it doesn’t answer the question?
Well, it does really, so it’s a guess when my life is half over, yes?
I wonder how much other stuff we give value, is only a guess?
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #25 - 03/06/18 at 21:14:00
 
More to the point, is how much we miss! I guess if we're over 50 then all we can say is that we are closer to the end than the beginning.
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #26 - 03/06/18 at 21:32:41
 
raydawg wrote on 03/06/18 at 20:41:01:
Ok, using your reasoning.....
Is the cup half full, or half empty?

Let me ask it this way perhaps.

From the moment we are born, we are dying then, yes?

At which point of our life then, can we say our journey through it, is halfway through?

I don't think I care where the half way point is... when I'm done, that's it, I'm done.
I've done a little every day.  Some are milestones, some are waypoints to another milestone.
Hopefully, someone won't sweep them all out when I'm gone.
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #27 - 03/06/18 at 21:33:44
 
@stewmills

The earth did whatever it did to create oil, and that took heat

You may as well start at the source, so there was a big ball of hydrogen which collapsed under the effects of gravity, (which btw is negative energy) when there was enough heat and pressure 10,000,000K it ignited and mass was converted into energy, as per Einstein e=mc2. Every second 600 billion kilograms of hydrogen are fused into 596 billion kilograms of helium.

So 4 billion kilograms of mass has been converted directly into energy, this energy is in the form of photons in the form of high energy gamma rays. Because the Sun is so dense it takes about 40,000 years for these gamma rays to make it to the surface of the Sun, by which time they have lost so much energy colliding with other particles that they are now in the visible portion of light at 6,000K and on they stream to Earth. Photons created from matter.

These photons hit plants and knock electrons into higher energy orbits which then drop back down again and emit lower energy photons from visible light in the green wavelengths to the infra red wavelength. This doesn't really help the plant, which has to somehow figure out how to capture and store this energy which it does using a magnesium atom in the chlorophyl molecule. I shifts an electron and captures it in an electron acceptor molecule.

It then uses this stored energy to by way of a convoluted process to build a high energy containing molecule of glucose containing carbon hydrogen and oxygen from low energy carbon dioxide. We humans reverse this procedure and breakdown the glucose back to how it started by shifting electrons around in the Krebs cycle. We have to do it little bit by little bit because we don't want to start a fire inside us. Along the way we attach an oxygen atoms to a molecule of adenosine diphosphate, and make adenosine triphosphate ATP which is the $$$$'s that our body spends to build complex things from simple things.

In the use of energy unordered waste heat is produced which ultimately radiates off into space. Thus increasing the entropy of the Universe. So basically high energy photons rain down on the earth stuff happens which appears to violate the law of  entropy but it doesn't really because overall more disordered low energy photons radiate away from the Earth so the net result if more disorder, more running down.
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #28 - 03/06/18 at 22:13:29
 
verslagen1 wrote on 03/06/18 at 21:32:41:
raydawg wrote on 03/06/18 at 20:41:01:
Ok, using your reasoning.....
Is the cup half full, or half empty?

Let me ask it this way perhaps.

From the moment we are born, we are dying then, yes?

At which point of our life then, can we say our journey through it, is halfway through?

I don't think I care where the half way point is... when I'm done, that's it, I'm done.
I've done a little every day.  Some are milestones, some are waypoints to another milestone.
Hopefully, someone won't sweep them all out when I'm gone.


I like that..
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #29 - 03/07/18 at 04:56:45
 
IslandRoad wrote on 03/06/18 at 11:03:19:
I think you're talking about Thermodynamics - and knowing how to spell it is about as much as I know  Cool


Thermodynamics was my most challenging course in college....it seemed really abstract.  Pretty weird I made an "A" in Heat Transfer and barely passed Thermo - on the surface they seem pretty similar.....but the concepts of Enthalpy and Entropy still have me baffled.

I am however satisfied that with a few simple mechanical changes....I can get a 30HP Savage up closer to 40 HP! Smiley
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