SuzukiSavage.com - How do you measure energy...????

raydawg

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How do you measure energy...????
03/06/18 at 08:19:00

I am not talking about measuring to harness, like horsepower, BTU, Volts, etc....
I am talking about measuring energy in reference to its efficiency.

We saw SpaceX just launch a craft into orbit, it was amazing, but look how much energy went into that "motion".

Not sure if I can explain my thoughts, but I will try.
The telescope post by Oldtimer got me to thinking, as did some of its replies and exchanges.

I think we can agree we are all constrained, power wise, by time, the measure of it.

Example, that spaceX aircraft could take me to a planet, but I might die before I got there, depending on speed and distance....
So, that is not a very efficient way for me to travel.

How do we fix that?

I'm not sure, travel faster?

On what energy source?

Ok, lets go back to measuring energy as efficiency.
The best source of energy would be one of perpetual motion, yes?
Energy that creates its own source of energy, right?

Using that as our foundation of understanding, then we must look around at energy sources, using efficiency for maximizing input, to output.
What source has the greatest propensity to deliver the most efficient, sustainable, source.
It would have to be as close to perpetual motion as humanly possible, right?

Once we can establish that, we then can control motion, which would then break us free of the constraints of time, yes?

Is anybody following me?

I can continue if you would like, I think I have a source, however, I think I need help in explaining it.

Interested?

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Serowbot YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline OK.... so what's the speed of dark? Posts: 28846 Tucson Az Gender:	Re: How do you measure energy...???? Reply #1 - 03/06/18 at 08:25:40 Soooo,... What kind of meds did they give ya"?...
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raydawg

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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #2 - 03/06/18 at 08:46:35

Serowbot wrote on 03/06/18 at 08:25:40:

Soooo,... What kind of meds did they give ya"?... Huh

Ha Ha..... I got a bottle full, and those were from the first op last month.
I won't take them unless the pain is searing, not worth the risk.

You gotta understand your own needs to "comfort" yourself, the why you need to.
That is what pain blockers do, they comfort our minds (if you have one).
That is what addictions do, food, booze, even political discussions, can easily turn into a co-dependency.

After my father inlaw passed, from cancer, we had hundreds, and hundreds of pills, the really strong end of life milligram ones.
I am sure on the street, it would have fetched a tidy sum.

My wife and I reduced those puppies down to powder, then cut it with all sorts of chemicals, etc, and disposed of it to the point no one could ever utilize them.....

Over-acting, you betcha......but sure!

Anyways, you wanna field the question, or do you just snipe at folk anymore?

I got weeks to expand on this idea Grin

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HAPPYDAN

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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #3 - 03/06/18 at 08:47:36

Intriguing thought. As technology stands today, we possess the ability to, say, get to Mars. But, and it's a big but, we can't get them back. The concept of faster is not new, much like an F-16 that fires an air to air missile. The F-16 flies at 700mph and fires a missile which also goes 700 mph. Relative speed of the missile becomes 1400 mph. Add several stages and the lack of air resistance in space, and wow. That's how we get there. How do we get back?

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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #4 - 03/06/18 at 08:57:31

"efficiency" isn't the word you are looking for... move along.

I think you're looking for effective.
For instance a 50cc moped may get you to where you're going at 120 mpg but it takes 2 hours to get there.
Whereas a 650cc mc will get there in 30 mins at 50 mpg and 2 tickets Cool

But effectivity of getting there all smiley, you'd have to go the 650cc route.

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raydawg

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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #5 - 03/06/18 at 09:12:53

HAPPYDAN wrote on 03/06/18 at 08:47:36:

Intriguing thought. As technology stands today, we possess the ability to, say, get to Mars. But, and it's a big but, we can't get them back. The concept of faster is not new, much like an F-16 that fires an air to air missile. The F-16 flies at 700mph and fires a missile which also goes 700 mph. Relative speed of the missile becomes 1400 mph. Add several stages and the lack of air resistance in space, and wow. That's how we get there. How do we get back?

OK Dan, thanks for your reply/interest.....

Let me just offer a glimpse of what I am trying to formulate.....
Keeping power/energy, in mind, as the needed element (that) we will need, to overcome, with present day KNOWN constraints.

For I think we can assume our solar system IS the result of some type of power source, yes?

It is also a constraining factor, yes?
You just gave a perfect example.

So, lets look at energy a different way, not like a "fuel" tank, no, but go back to perpetual motion..... follow me?

Like a small spark, as Smokey tells us, can destroy (for the sack of argument) a whole forest, right?

One little minuscule source of energy that is pretty useless, "power-wise" in trying to harness it, use it.

I work on jets, and whenever I am installing avionics or other equipment that has "power" as its source, I must drain any residual "energy" it might have captured while handling, it gets really intense as to where, why, and how things capture energy.....
But if not corralled, controlled, it can wipe out whole circuits, a mere static discharge.

So, energy exist, all around us, I think the key to our riddle is to capture it, and store it, to be able to harness it, like a battery, follow me?

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raydawg

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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #6 - 03/06/18 at 09:15:04

verslagen1 wrote on 03/06/18 at 08:57:31:

"efficiency" isn't the word you are looking for... move along.

I think you're looking for effective.
For instance a 50cc moped may get you to where you're going at 120 mpg but it takes 2 hours to get there.
Whereas a 650cc mc will get there in 30 mins at 50 mpg and 2 tickets Cool

But effectivity of getting there all smiley, you'd have to go the 650cc route.

I would like to hear more please.....

I am thinking you are putting too much emphasis on motion, at this point, I believe we need a sustainable source, first.

But please continue....

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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #7 - 03/06/18 at 09:20:10

raydawg wrote on 03/06/18 at 08:19:00:

... Once we can establish that, we then can control motion, which would then break us free of the constraints of time, yes? ...

I don't think that statement is correct. Motion still requires time - regardless of the source of the energy.

There's a terrific book written by the scientist behind the science of the movie Interstellar. It's written in very plain English, and covers a lot of stuff from the possible, through the plausible, to the imaginary. He offers a great perspective on the sheer scale we are talking about. Many of the mind-blowing aspects of space become relatively simple - given enough distance (and time).

For example, humans were mapping the night sky for about 9 thousand years. For all intents and purposes the stars looked fixed in their position. We now know they are flying apart at incredible speeds. How can that be when they appear fixed for thousands of years? - you just need to be far enough away from them for them to look stationary, regardless of how fast they are moving!

He gave a great analogy: The nearest star (at the time of writing the book), that might have a planet similar to Earth, was about 12 light years away. If that distance was scaled down to the distance from New York to Paris, then the trip to the Moon was 7 centimetres.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: How do you measure energy...???? Reply #8 - 03/06/18 at 09:24:56 I measure energy in a comparative way. I consider the energy required to accomplish what needs done and compare it to the Tiredass I feel. If the energy is close or more than, I do it.
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #9 - 03/06/18 at 09:47:15

Heat. It's all about heat!

I don't know enough to really substantiate this argument in a detailed scientific manner though I always look at the whole energy process as heat transfer.

The earth did whatever it did to create oil, and that took heat. The refinery used some heat to get the oil and make gasoline during the refinery process. We put that gasoline into our two-wheelers and through combustion we make a lot of heat. Some dissipates through the exhaust, some through convection of the wind blowing across the hot engine, some through the friction of the tires on the road.

I think there is a formula out there somewhere that would let you account for every smidgen of "heat" that something has, creates, and/or dissipates as it goes through a chemical reaction or combustion and at the end of the math problem the ratio would be 1:1.

Don't ask me to prove this. I can't. Just my two cents. Shocked

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raydawg Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 11551 pacific northwest Gender:	Re: How do you measure energy...???? Reply #10 - 03/06/18 at 09:55:07 All good replies, thanks..... I got some things I need to do, I will add more thought later
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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #11 - 03/06/18 at 10:41:03

raydawg wrote on 03/06/18 at 09:15:04:

I would like to hear more please.....

I am thinking you are putting too much emphasis on motion, at this point, I believe we need a sustainable source, first.

But please continue....

You have yet to define the problem with any clarity.
I've only corrected usage.
The only potential tech available for unlimited flight from star system to star system is a solar sailor. And about half way you're going to be sailing into a headwind.

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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #12 - 03/06/18 at 11:02:03

verslagen1 wrote on 03/06/18 at 10:41:03:

raydawg wrote on 03/06/18 at 09:15:04:

I would like to hear more please.....

I am thinking you are putting too much emphasis on motion, at this point, I believe we need a sustainable source, first.

But please continue....

You have yet to define the problem with any clarity.
I've only corrected usage.
The only potential tech available for unlimited flight from star system to star system is a solar sailor. And about half way you're going to be sailing into a headwind.

Aaaand .... there is simply not going to be enough time in the universe to get to most of it!

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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #13 - 03/06/18 at 11:03:19

stewmills wrote on 03/06/18 at 09:47:15:

Heat. It's all about heat!

I don't know enough to really substantiate this argument in a detailed scientific manner though I always look at the whole energy process as heat transfer.

The earth did whatever it did to create oil, and that took heat. The refinery used some heat to get the oil and make gasoline during the refinery process. We put that gasoline into our two-wheelers and through combustion we make a lot of heat. Some dissipates through the exhaust, some through convection of the wind blowing across the hot engine, some through the friction of the tires on the road.

I think there is a formula out there somewhere that would let you account for every smidgen of "heat" that something has, creates, and/or dissipates as it goes through a chemical reaction or combustion and at the end of the math problem the ratio would be 1:1.

Don't ask me to prove this. I can't. Just my two cents. Shocked

I think you're talking about Thermodynamics - and knowing how to spell it is about as much as I know Cool

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Re: How do you measure energy...????
Reply #14 - 03/06/18 at 13:08:58

IslandRoad wrote on 03/06/18 at 11:02:03:

[
Aaaand .... there is simply not going to be enough time in the universe to get to most of it!

The only other possibility are atomic rockets. But being reaction motor means they'll need to collect matter along the way in order to be self sufficient. Not much matter floating in the vacuum of space. Such a proposition would mean they would need to capture small asteroids along the way.

Warp and hyper speed are simply wishes. Which means interstellar travel requires generations to get to the next galaxy. Or hibernation which pretty much eliminates the supplies issue. Or one needs to carry their ecosystem with them. Another plus to capturing a small asteroid, but bigger. Not only serving as propellant, but shielding for an over-sized ecosystem. The larger it is, the slower it is to accelerate. Emergency maneuvers? forgetaboutit.

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