You can call it bs, or whatever.....
I was not assigning any value to it.
I guess you can argue the past, at the cost of the moment, and deny the future, of possible repair.
That seems to be the way DC and politics work, but too, that seems to be the complaint, yet.......

verslagen1 wrote on 02/22/18 at 15:03:16:



first, it's not fair to make me refute a 4 minute video put together by the spin masters that are the NRA. but, I'll give it a shot, this going to be LONG one so, I hope you actually read through it, and reply to IT, instead of just going to your talking points as you usually fall back on.

First, I find it highly questionable that the same organization the consistently rails against ANY regulations even delaying a purchase of ANY firearm is saying that they are for background checks. But I"ll take that with a grain of salt since that's what they are saying here, (personally I don't believe the NRA cares one way or another who sends them money, criminals or law abiding citizens, do they have background checks on their memberships???  

so, now to go LINE BY LINE through this video: (the green is the video)

here's what the media won't tell you the NRA has fought for 20 years to put the records of those adjudicated mentally incompetent into the National instant check system and until the politicians demand that they are submitted killers who are legally prohibited from owning firearms will walk into gun stores and pass every background check they take


it's not the media's job to spin for the NRA. that's like saying  the NRA hasn't told it's members that the media has donated this that and this to this charity or something. The media reports on IN THE MOMENT issues, not the agenda of an organization, sometimes commentators might mention that on a talking head show, but that up THAT INDIVIDUAL commentator, not the "media" as whole, oh, and Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity and  EVERY conservative websites are all part of the MEDIA also.

I find it hard to buy that the NRA that has always been against any kind of "registry" to record gun buyers of any kind and this says no, they're okay with registration, of criminals, but you can't have one without the other...  Also, didn't they urge voting against putting people on the NO FLY list on the background check list?   saying that the no fly list is full of errors and shouldn't be used.. but why would they have any more faith in this list of criminals?

the NRA has a history of sabotaging any attempt to "list" Americans like this, so when you create a culture like the NRA has, antagonizing any debate, let alone action, on gun regulations...  

so I'm immediately skeptical of this


if they really wanted to make a difference the media would lead every newscast with a reminder that the names of millions of violent felons criminal gangbangers and adjudicated mentally incompetent and dangerous people are missing from the background check system but no one gets ratings by telling the truth

again, making a difference isn't the media's job. the media's job is ratings. oh, and WE are the ratings, if we responded by watching that media more to the media nagging us about this and that, then the media would do exactly that.

as an aside, hasn't Fox News raved about their ratings for the last 10 years or so.. so, yeah, not telling the truth seems like a good way to get ratings indeed.

there's a bit of double speak here with the word truth being used as a transitionary word.

no one gets ratings by telling the truth about how to stop mass killers so they don't report that 38 states admit less than 80% of their felony convictions to the system leaving more than 7 million felony convictions in the dark they don't tell you the truth

the truth about how to stop mass killers...   the hard truth is, which you all have said again and again in defense of not having gun regulations, the truth is that if someone is really deranged and really determined to kill masses of people, they'll find a way, trucks, bombs, poison, all kinds of things, so why have gun laws at all, since they don't work. <--this has been a often used line by pro-gun conservatives.

so, 50-38 = 12, 12 states report 100%?   is that what we are to assume? and 38 report "less than" 80% that's kinda vague...  and 80% isn't that bad, I'm surprised it's that high of a number, and which states are these? could they be conservative states? idk... but since he leaves that out, I'm assuming it didn't help his anti-liberal/democrat message so I'm going to assume that they were majority conservative states that don't report 100%.


they don't tell you the truth instead the only thing the average American has heard about background checks is the absolute fallacy that what we need is more the system is only as good as the records within it and the records only get submitted if the politicians demand it

"the absolute fallacy that what we need is more"
but.... aren't you arguing to strengthen the background check system by having a mandate that those 38 states report more??   so you don't want more...  but you want more records...   but not more background check systems...  no redundancy...  but more...

"if the politicians demand it"
but YOU lobby politicians, YOU'RE a lobbying group. if they aren't demanding it, maybe you're not lobbying for it, we KNOW how precious your rating is for politicians, you have massive influence, you say you've been wanting this for 20 years.. but have you been lobbying for it?  or did you find it confusing to your membership that you'd be for strengthening background checks while at the same time be against them even exisiting, while you lose membership to more extreme groups

what are the Oregon killer the WDBJ killer the Charleston Church killer the Santa Barbara killer the Maryland mall killer the LA Airport killer the DC Navy Yard killer the Aurora movie theater killer the Tucson killer the Virginia Tech killer and both Fort Hood killers have in common every single one of them passed a background check

yes, that is a tragedy, maybe we need better background checks, which you seem to agree with right now...  but in the past... I mean, pick a message


if you cast a net and the fish swim through the holes you don't need a bigger net you need tighter holes but when it comes to a background check system that's missing the names of millions of prohibited people the politicians don't want to fix it


yup, tighter holes, let's fix it, again though your past says you'll vote against any attempt to fix it.  



the best kept secret is that the Nationalistic check system wouldn't exist at all if it weren't for the NRA it's true back in the 90s President Clinton forced passage of a mandatory waiting period on every handgun purchase in America not a background check wait but NRA said as soon as the technology was available their wait had to be replaced by an instant background check


So, it's your fault that the system sucks then?   I imagine you determined what "technology" was acceptable or what was required to take off the mandatory waiting period?   Since your so concerned with it, why did you accept such lax reporting as part of the agreement to remove the waiting period? or were you just too eager to get rid of a regulation and get more guns flowing faster?  

or maybe the politicians deceived you and said the system was good but it really wasn't, but why did you let that go? again, you have massive lobbying power.  

looks like someone is trying to have it both ways here.


replaced by an instant background check done by the dealer at the point of sale NRA supported it NRA got the votes and NRA got it passed we demanded an honest system it was supposed to make sure good people can purchase firearms as quickly as possible a system that catches violent felons the adjudicated mentally incompetent and dangerous and every other prohibited person right at the

oh, by the dealer... so private sales, gun shows...  

"NRA supported it NRA got the votes and NRA got it passed we demanded an honest system"
see. you do have the power, so, why'd you get lax on getting what you want??  if you wanted a better, tighter net...  you have the power to get one, and all the opportunity in the world to get it too, Lord knows there have been too many events for you to spark this debate back up and get something done...  so, why didn't you get anything done?


" good people can purchase firearms as quickly as possible (in) a system that catches violent felons "
so, shovel the guns ASAP but catch all the bad people at the same speed...  mm hmmm, that's not asking for mistakes either, again trying to have it both ways, not giving the system the time it might need to be affective.


incompetent and dangerous and every other prohibited person right at the point of sale where they would be prosecuted federal felony but they aren't

So you want gun dealers to also be responsible for holding and detaining those caught by the background check?  would that be an expansion of the ATF?  


what has happened instead is one of the greatest failures in the history of American leadership in 2010 roughly 80,000 prohibited people committed a felony by trying to buy a gun just 44 were prosecuted for it does that sound like a good number to anybody so when you hear politicians who won't fix the broken system talk about expanding it don't buy it


so your answer is to not have a system???  since you don't trust them to fix it?

maybe that has something to do with your anti-regulation of any kind stance/image, you've rewarded a bunch of those politicians for doing nothing with an A rating...

and now the pivot:

demand what works put armed security in every school fix the broken mental health system enforce the federal gun laws against every criminal thug on the street prosecute dangerous people when they show up to buy a gun and for God's sake put every prohibited person into the system that's what common sense gun laws look like


how do you know any of that works?  we haven't really tried it. and still doesn't address things like Las Vegas or the night club....  

and again, you could have fixed that if you wanted to, that would have been a small ask, and you say you've wanted it but have you really?  I'm just not sure I believe that.

verslagen1 wrote on 02/23/18 at 10:56:12:


that's fair

FormerlyLostArtist wrote on 02/23/18 at 10:16:53:

Here's the focus part... Is it true that (insert name here) FL doesn't report violent students to NICS?  Why not?  Does FL report all felons to NICS as a rule?  WHY NOT!?!

And yes a car can mow down a mass of people before they realize what's happening.  So why don't you ban trucks, cars, and wheelbarrows.  
Doesn't justify not restricting guns.  That's the simple answer, if they fight you on that they're just being ridiculous.

Why do they give you a vague number on reporting?  Because they don't even know if it 80%, they're just hoping it's 80%.  It's voluntary, probably because of all privacy rights and how they're interpreted differently.  Until it's mandatory and audited, we'll never know for sure.

verslagen1 wrote on 02/23/18 at 13:26:02:



so they don't know??  so it could be 100% then.  and again, the NRA helped pass that law and they didn't put a requirement to report it in there, and I guess, to relate to another thread, do we get rid of the 4th amendment then?  

FormerlyLostArtist wrote on 02/23/18 at 13:45:46:


Focus, don't hijack your own thread.
You find something wrong... fix it.  If you have to have a fix-all, they're going to start chasing butterflies instead.

Background checks, mandatory court input, all courts, auditing.

The rest is divisionistic BS... focus.

I hope I'm being reasonable.

FormerlyLostArtist wrote on 02/23/18 at 14:24:22:

First MNSPRING, I'm not against gun ownership, I'm not anti gun, I'm not suggesting any ban of any gun. ..."

  Perhaps you and someone else, talk so alike, and say so many of the same things, it may seem the two of you are of one mind.

Lost: “… Planned Parenthood has NEVER gotten ANY tax dollars for abortion, …”

P.P, gets  MONEY, from YOUR, Taxes.
The overwhelming majority of federal funding to Planned Parenthood comes from Medicaid
 (Oh, where does the money for, Medicaid, come from ?)

Lost: “… DON’T DRAG THIS INTO A DEBATE ON ABORTION, STAY ON TOPIC…”
                        LOLOOOLOO !
  Was talking about lobbyists, (or didn’t you get that ?)

Lost: “…Clinton law was: The law required a five-day waiting period after purchasing a handgun, and the dealer had to report the sale to the local chief law enforcement officer to run a check on the buyer….”
 I See, you must have had a  Gun Store then,  You had a  FFL  License then,  (How many years did you have a FFL ?), You did the Paperwork then,  You knew what the Laws were and how they were enforced, you KNEW, what the, ‘check’, was by the LEO?   WOW,  didn’t know that !!!!    LOLOLOLOLOL


          This one is really great !
Lost: “…maybe we need better background checks …”
Lost: “… tighter holes, let’s fix it,…”
 MN:  Gee, isn’t that what the NRA is  SAYING  !!!!!!!
Lost:  BUT IT’S NOT WHAT THEY ARE DOING!!!

So now, you say the NRA, is to do the checks, not the FBI ?

MN:  Now when someone can,  LIE,  on the 4473 Form,
   ( in one year, 80,000  People, LIED, and only 44 were Prosecuted)
That is the fault of a ‘Gun’ owner or the NRA,  HOW ?????????
Lost: that would be the fault of the gun owner, but why wasn’t it caught?
        YEA,  WHY  ??????????????
       Why Wasn’t he/she 'caught’  ?    
 Gee, ya  Think, The People,  IN CHARGE, Ignored them ???????
 And again, it's the NRA's  Fault, WHY ???

Let’s see,  Hospitals and Clinics were,  ’Suppose’, to communicate with each other.
Over 10 Years ago.  (Digitally)
             They  STILL   Don’t !!!!!!!!!
Yet, ANY, Hospital or Clinic,  can  INSTANTLY, (Digitally), communicate with,  ANY, Pharmacy, so you get drugs.

(Not changing the Subject, making a point.)

When the Communication gets, someone MONEY,
 Like  Hospital/Clinic,  communicating with Pharmacy,
  It’s gets  DONE.

When Hospitals and Clinics, do NOT communicate with each other.
It is MONEY also.  Only  Money, to do a test, which was done, by the, ‘other’ place, which the, ‘other’, place, can NOT communicate with.

Reporting, to a central place, about a Mental Health problem,
      is, Not, Mandatory by the LAW MAKERS.
                   NOT  the NRA.

FormerlyLostArtist wrote on 02/23/18 at 17:18:27:

"... I wish this forum had an ignore button.  

 What  ?

  YOU,  haven't FOUND it Yet ?