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air fuel mixture thread pitch (Read 242 times)
Dave
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #15 - 12/31/17 at 02:15:42
 
Get it running before you take the head cap off......you need to see if the rest of the engine works properly and is worth spending time on.  Scrub the engine well (I use Bike Bright), as that will help you identify where the leaks are coming from.

The nut up front does weep oil if loose (or missing).  The original nut has a smooth flange built into the nut - it is good to use sealer on the threads and a small amount under the flange on the nut.  Don't use a lock washer or nut with the serrated flange - as those will dig into the aluminum and prevent the nut from being able to seal.

If the oil leak doesn't go away - it will likely require you to remove the head cap and replace the plug over the right front cylinder/head stud, as those are consistent leakers.  When the head cap is off you can torque the cylinder - you need to remove the nuts and washers 1 at a time, clean up the threads on the stud and nut, then torque them.  The left front and right rear studs can weep oil - so you need to put some sealant on both side of the washers......and a generous amount of anti-seize on the studs.  Torque them up just a bit under the recommended amount as you remove and replace them 1 at a time - then torque them all up to the recommended value in a criss/cross pattern before the anti-seize and sealant dries.  Use the Verslagen head plug, and use the recommended Suzukibond sealant - it is much easier to use than the gasket maker you get at the big box stores....it sets up slower and it has more body (and the tube lasts for years as it doesn't get hard in the tube).

The nut(s) under the exhaust and intake port are short head bolts, and they should be torqued as well - however I don't have anything that can reach in there and accurately torque them - so I just snug them up  tight (not two handed tight).

 
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Mnheights
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #16 - 12/31/17 at 14:06:10
 
As you suggest, I will clean the engine and run it to check it over. The nut I used has the smooth flange as part of the nut. I will get some Suzuki bond sealant. Let the adventure begin! Smiley
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Mnheights
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #17 - 01/05/18 at 21:52:34
 
Thought I would update 2003 LS650 status. Got running and didn't sound to good, found intake and exhaust valves to be very tight and adjusted. Then wouldn't start, just a very faint click. Anyway, we found the Decompression controller solenoid to be bad. Spent some time finding because it would work, then not work, depending on it's mood I suppose. Anyway, long story short; did leak down test (held piston at top dead center) valves closed...hissing noise out of exhaust. Did compression test (jumped starter solenoid so Decompression didn't work) and it was 85 to 90 psi. Decided to take the plunge and R&R engine...the good deal is turning out to be quite the learning experience. The adventure continues  Smiley Smiley
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #18 - 01/05/18 at 22:05:09
 
Bummers, plural,
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #19 - 01/05/18 at 23:08:45
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 01/05/18 at 22:05:09:
Bummers, plural,




Now we get to build a good runner! Cool
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Dave
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #20 - 01/06/18 at 04:30:42
 
It does sound like you need to take things apart and do an inspection to see what is healthy and what is sick.

If the valves are not healthy - they need to be replaced as they are very thin and have a surface hardening - they cannot be ground.  There are some India made aftermarket versions that are a bit cheaper than the factory ones.....not sure if they are good enough to use?  The valve seats can be ground if needed.

While the head is apart, it is a good time to clean up the ports and smooth out the restrictive donut in the exhaust port.  If you are unsure of the age......new valve seals are most likely worthwhile.

If the bore is in good shape, then a 94mm Wiseco can be used and will save you the expense and potential risk of getting the cylinder bored for an oversize 95/96/97mm piston.  The larger pistons offer a very small increase in power....the higher compression that all Wiseco pistons provide is where most the extra power comes from.  The stock 94mm piston makes 652cc, the 95mm makes 666cc, the 96mm makes 680cc, the 97mm makes 694cc.  So if we assume the extra compression takes the HP up from the stock 30 to 35 HP with the 94mm Wiseco, the 95mm would make 35.7, the 96mm would make 36.5, and the 97mm would make 37.2....so as an approximation there is only about a 2.2 HP difference between the largest and smallest Wiseco.  You should compare the cost of the different size pistons and the cost for the overbore is worth the HP difference to you.  (If your cylinder is damaged than an overbore will be necessary).

Camshaft - The performance camshaft is definitely worthwhile and it does make mor power.  The engine still is very mild mannered and has strong torque and you don't have to rev the engine to make things happen - as the camshaft grind is not very exotic and the engine still is smooth and docile.

Cylinder threads - While you have it apart look carefully at the 3 threaded holes for the long 6mm cylinder head cover.  These threads can be damaged and require the engine to be taken apart to fix stripped threads.  If there is any doubt - have Heli-coil inserts installed while the engine is apart.

Verslagen head plug - Buy and install the Verslagen head plug cap instead of the stock rubber/plastic one.

Cam chain - If the cam chain tensioner is extended close to the 20mm maximum, buy and install the nitrided cam chain from Lancer.

Assembly RTV - Buy and use the Suzukibond or Threebond, don't buy generic gasket maker at the big box or auto store.  The original stuff works better and is easier to use.  




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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #21 - 01/06/18 at 09:41:05
 
Honda bond is another.
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Dave
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #22 - 01/06/18 at 11:22:26
 
I also believe the poor cylinder head design is a big reason that the LS650 is 30HP and the DR650 is 50 HP.  Going to a bigger piston will likely get you an equal increase in low rpm torque - but with the poor flow in the cylinder head you will likely not get an equal increase in upper RPM horsepower.

The bigger piston may just get you to the place where the head flow suffers and bit sooner than a smaller piston does - a smaller piston engine may run better at higher rpm than a similar big piston engine.

If you spend most of your time at lower rpm....maybe the bigger piston is better.  If you spend a lot of time on the interstate........maybe a smaller piston engine is better?
Huh
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #23 - 01/06/18 at 18:45:18
 
Dave wrote on 01/06/18 at 04:30:42:
If the valves are not healthy - they need to be replaced as they are very thin and have a surface hardening - they cannot be ground.  There are some India made aftermarket versions that are a bit cheaper than the factory ones.....not sure if they are good enough to use?



There's also Japanese valves, manufacturer Vesrah http://catalog.vesrah.co.jp/catalog/shape/GG-3031.html

Very high quality but much cheaper than Suzuki, at least in Europe.
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #24 - 01/07/18 at 03:40:57
 
I thought Vesrah was made in India? Huh

Anybody know how they stack up against the Suzuki stock part?
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #25 - 01/07/18 at 05:14:27
 
Dave wrote on 01/07/18 at 03:40:57:
I thought Vesrah was made in India? Huh

Anybody know how they stack up against the Suzuki stock part?


They look exactly the same.
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #26 - 01/12/18 at 12:02:43
 
Status update on 2003 LS650. Did get bike running, didn't sound good. Adjusted the valves, better...but not good enough. Long story short has low compression, 85 psi holding throttle wide open. Now going the hard way and have parts all over the garage. Waiting for piston, tensioner, etc.  Hopefully, I can get it back together correctly. Fortunately for me, I have a secret source for information putting LS650 bike together... Smiley Smiley
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #27 - 01/12/18 at 12:39:48
 
Mnheights wrote on 01/12/18 at 12:02:43:
Long story short has low compression, 85 psi holding throttle wide open.


You did disconnect the compression release cable prior to making the compression test? Huh
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #28 - 01/12/18 at 13:41:03
 
Good point, yes I did. If it would have been 120 psi I think I would have tried using bike for awhile to see how performance would be, but at 85 psi not anywhere near good enough.
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Re: air fuel mixture thread pitch
Reply #29 - 01/12/18 at 18:27:03
 
Dave wrote on 01/12/18 at 12:39:48:
Mnheights wrote on 01/12/18 at 12:02:43:
Long story short has low compression, 85 psi holding throttle wide open.




You did disconnect the compression release cable prior to making the compression test? Huh



We dido the piston rings are bad and the valves are bad to time for new parts
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