SuzukiSavage.com - Knocking/Clacking

Steph

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Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End?
Reply #45 - 10/24/17 at 13:17:17

I wanted to try something.... would I be able to hear a similar sound while rotating the engine manually via the timing port? I tried rotating it counter-clockwise and it was pretty much silent, save for the compression of the engine. This was with both side covers and the head cover off. If I remember, this was not the case when I attempted to do the valve inspection at home, where even pushing the bike made a noticeable sound.

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verslagen1 YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline Where there's a will, I want to be in it. Posts: 28886 L.A. California Gender:	Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End? Reply #46 - 10/24/17 at 13:46:10 With the head cover off, you have no rockers, so no valves opening or closing... compression, vacuum, compression, vacuum. If it's piston slap, doing it by hand may not be fast enough to get a slap. Take out sparky and use the starter.
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Steph

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Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End?
Reply #47 - 10/24/17 at 13:48:20

Steph wrote on 10/24/17 at 13:17:17:

I wanted to try something.... would I be able to hear a similar sound while rotating the engine manually via the timing port? I tried rotating it counter-clockwise and it was pretty much silent, save for the compression of the engine. This was with both side covers and the head cover off. If I remember, this was not the case when I attempted to do the valve inspection at home, where even pushing the bike made a noticeable sound.

Rather I take that back. It seems there is a light grinding sound from the center of the cylinder area when the bike is approaching TDC on either stroke.

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Steph

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Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End?
Reply #48 - 10/24/17 at 14:23:33

verslagen1 wrote on 10/24/17 at 13:46:10:

With the head cover off, you have no rockers, so no valves opening or closing... compression, vacuum, compression, vacuum.

If it's piston slap, doing it by hand may not be fast enough to get a slap.
Take out sparky and use the starter.

Just to be sure, you're saying I should do this with the engine out of the frame, no oil and the covers off or...?

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verslagen1

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Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End?
Reply #49 - 10/24/17 at 14:36:32

Steph wrote on 10/24/17 at 14:23:33:

verslagen1 wrote on 10/24/17 at 13:46:10:

With the head cover off, you have no rockers, so no valves opening or closing... compression, vacuum, compression, vacuum.

If it's piston slap, doing it by hand may not be fast enough to get a slap.
Take out sparky and use the starter.

Just to be sure, you're saying I should do this with the engine out of the frame, no oil and the covers off or...?

It's not going to start, a few turns should be ok.
Any more than that, a squirt of oil on every bearing and in the cylinder should be fine.
don't forget to tie the kangaroo down mate!

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Steph

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Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End?
Reply #50 - 10/25/17 at 01:00:02

verslagen1 wrote on 10/24/17 at 14:36:32:

Steph wrote on 10/24/17 at 14:23:33:

verslagen1 wrote on 10/24/17 at 13:46:10:

With the head cover off, you have no rockers, so no valves opening or closing... compression, vacuum, compression, vacuum.

If it's piston slap, doing it by hand may not be fast enough to get a slap.
Take out sparky and use the starter.

Just to be sure, you're saying I should do this with the engine out of the frame, no oil and the covers off or...?

It's not going to start, a few turns should be ok.
Any more than that, a squirt of oil on every bearing and in the cylinder should be fine.
don't forget to tie the kangaroo down mate!

Alright, I will be doing this in the AM. I'm assuming I should leave the stator cover on so the starter gear doesn't slide out though. Will update in the morning, though I doubt I will be able to hear anything over the sound of the starter Shocked

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Steph

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Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End?
Reply #51 - 10/25/17 at 14:55:15

verslagen1 wrote on 10/24/17 at 14:36:32:

Steph wrote on 10/24/17 at 14:23:33:

verslagen1 wrote on 10/24/17 at 13:46:10:

With the head cover off, you have no rockers, so no valves opening or closing... compression, vacuum, compression, vacuum.

If it's piston slap, doing it by hand may not be fast enough to get a slap.
Take out sparky and use the starter.

Just to be sure, you're saying I should do this with the engine out of the frame, no oil and the covers off or...?

It's not going to start, a few turns should be ok.
Any more than that, a squirt of oil on every bearing and in the cylinder should be fine.
don't forget to tie the kangaroo down mate!

So it's looking more and more like the last owner was in the head at some point and didn't entirely know what they were doing... but more importantly, the other outside bolt that secures the head to the cylinder (intake side) is stripped and I cannot for the life of me get it loose. The area is far too tight to get a grip, while my 12mm wrench just slips. Any suggestions on how to get it out?

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18099 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End? Reply #52 - 10/25/17 at 15:17:39 Do you have a 6 point box end wrench.
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Steph YaBB Newbies Offline Posts: 47 Phoenix, Arizona Gender:	Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End? Reply #53 - 10/25/17 at 15:22:40 Dave wrote on 10/25/17 at 15:17:39: Do you have a 6 point box end wrench. I have a set ranging from 8-18mm 12 point, but I don't have any 6 point. Would the 6 point allow a stronger grip? I'm guessing I would get one in 12mm, since that is the size of the bolt.
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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18099 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End? Reply #54 - 10/26/17 at 03:55:16 Yep, the 6 point grabs more of the hex on the nut. See if you can buy or borrow one.
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JLC Senior Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 262 Black Forest, Colorado Gender:	Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End? Reply #55 - 10/26/17 at 05:36:31 You are unlikely to round the corners off a nut using a six point set. One big advantage over the 12 points.
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LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10665 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End? Reply #56 - 10/26/17 at 06:42:34 JLC wrote on 10/26/17 at 05:36:31: You are unlikely to round the corners off a nut using a six point set. One big advantage over the 12 points. Yep, the 6 point wrenches hold a bolt/nut much more strongly than a 12 point; I think it is 2-3 times more.
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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End? Reply #57 - 10/26/17 at 08:39:25 I've used pieces of feeler gauges to get open end wrenches to work. Haven't been forced to try it on the other end yet. But yeah, a six point grabs a lot more meat.
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Steph

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Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End?
Reply #58 - 10/26/17 at 12:51:00

It took forever, but even after using a 6 point wrench, then a hex wrench and a whole lot of PB penetrating oil, I finally had to cut the nut off. I'll probably need to replace the bolt that goes into there, which luckily it can be, I just need to figure out how it gets removed. But anyways, I got the head off, and took a bunch of pictures.

https://imgur.com/gallery/LSdhv

There is a weird lining of burned material around the top of the cylinder, but I am not sure if it is supposed to be there. Similarly, there was a lot of carbon around the underside of the valves. And I never noticed the difference in color between the intake and exhaust. But unless any of that indicates an issue, I think I need to dig into the crankcase from the side going forward.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Knocking/Clacking - Lower End? Reply #59 - 10/26/17 at 14:16:12 Was there enough carbon buildup to cause preignition? Were you lugging it? Was that clacking on acceleration? Dave, what are you thinking? Anyone?
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