SuzukiSavage.com - Another new toy, Another new forum...

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #60 - 09/22/17 at 20:25:27 Bore it and go oversized piston?
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Christof13T

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #61 - 09/22/17 at 21:37:00

Yes Sir!
It's getting a 97mm wiseco.
Actually talking with a buddy with a beefy cnc mill right now about boring it. He is more than comfortable mating a piston to a jug.

I do have a question about the tolerance (cylinder to piston clearance).
The book lists .0020-.0024" but does not specify weather this is one side, or across the whole o.d. making it .0010-.0012" per side...

Can anyone clarify?

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LANCER

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #62 - 09/23/17 at 03:19:44

It would be wise to check with Wiseco or Wossner, whoever is the manufacturer of the piston, for the tolerances they say is appropriate for th bore process. Knowing how that tolerance is measured is critical. You don't want a piston that is so tight that it seizes as soon as you fire it up, or flop around with excess space and self distrust.
If your friend is familiar with machining cylinders then he should KNOW.

Want to get the correct info ?
Call Bill at Bore Tech, he will tell you; he does this every day.

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Dave

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #63 - 09/23/17 at 03:34:36

Yep......send your jug and piston to Bill at Boretech. This is a critical step in getting a good running, reliable and lasting engine.

Bill does this every day, it is all he does - he is the best!

Your friend with the CNC....does he also have a good hone to create the cross hatch needed for a good break in and ring seating?

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LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10668 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #64 - 09/23/17 at 03:53:47 Bill at Bore Tech is very reasonable, you can get the cylinder bored, honed and get the Silicone Carbide Treatment on the cylinder for less than $200. That is much cheaper than having to rebuild an engine after it self destructs.
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ohiomoto Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 2776	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #65 - 09/23/17 at 04:08:34 Christof13T wrote on 09/22/17 at 17:45:09: And what is a good place to host images to post on here... I wanna share this gruesome &h17. -------------------------- I just upload my pics to the site as an attachment. They'll be here as long as the site is here.
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Christof13T

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #66 - 09/23/17 at 05:44:07

LANCER wrote on 09/23/17 at 03:19:44:

It would be wise to check with Wiseco or Wossner, whoever is the manufacturer of the piston, for the tolerances they say is appropriate for th bore process. Knowing how that tolerance is measured is critical. You don't want a piston that is so tight that it seizes as soon as you fire it up, or flop around with excess space and self distrust.
If your friend is familiar with machining cylinders then he should KNOW.

Want to get the correct info ?
Call Bill at Bore Tech, he will tell you; he does this every day.

He commonly has downhole oil & gas tooling and hydraulic cylinders and and pistons, and aerospace contraption r&d in his shop. Mostly just hobby stuff when it comes to motors. I was hoping to save the extra $ but having it bored, mated to piston, and coated is sounding enticing.
The target tolerances either way are freaking gravy. My buddy and I are both accustomed to +/-.0002" tolerances working with common and exotic materials. Neither of us however have access to the coating process of choice.

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LANCER Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline Savage Beast Performance Parts Posts: 10668 Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #67 - 09/23/17 at 05:50:26 You could do the bore & hone yourselves and then send it to Bill for the Silicone Carbide, if desired.
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Christof13T

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #68 - 09/23/17 at 06:23:22

LANCER wrote on 09/23/17 at 05:50:26:

You could do the bore & hone yourselves and then send it to Bill for the Silicone Carbide, if desired.

If he is reasonable on the coating job just by itself (and is willing to share super secret clearance measurements lol) then that may be an option.

I was flipping through a couple of the "big bore" threads and I'm sure it was you that just did the 97mm build... how is it holding up?

I "accidentally" broke off the studs that hold that stupid heavy honking exhaust on the bike while removing it... Contemplating a shorty cheapo glass pack, some torch and welder play... then some ceramic paint and exhaust wrap... How much back pressure did you shoot for with the volumetric increase when you decided on exhaust?

Did you have both the cylinder and piston coated? It looks like he offers both, and a variety of options for piston coating (top, skirt, all).

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18101 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #69 - 09/23/17 at 07:18:31 It is not so much "back pressure" that is needed - what is needed is something that can cancel/smooth out the pressure waves bouncing up and down the length of the exhaust system. A glass pack or any muffler that you can see through - won't be able to do that.
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thumperclone Serious Thumper Alliance Member Offline PGR rider riding with respect Posts: 6098 Grand Junction Colorado Gender:	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #70 - 09/23/17 at 07:49:39 I have a 3" hardkrome slash cut muff you can see thru spiral wound baff no packing bike runs like a champ draw back its very LOUD
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Christof13T

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #71 - 09/23/17 at 08:18:53

Dave wrote on 09/23/17 at 07:18:31:

It is not so much "back pressure" that is needed - what is needed is something that can cancel/smooth out the pressure waves bouncing up and down the length of the exhaust system.

A glass pack or any muffler that you can see through - won't be able to do that.

Gotcha. I'll do some more lookin and see what pops up.

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Ruttly Serious Thumper Offline Thumpers Rule Posts: 5112 Manteca , CA Gender:	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #72 - 09/23/17 at 09:47:11 Boretech's services are worth every penny and Bill is easy to deal with. Quick turn around. Always send your new piston with your cylinder !
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LANCER

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #73 - 09/23/17 at 12:01:56

Christof13T wrote on 09/23/17 at 06:23:22:

LANCER wrote on 09/23/17 at 05:50:26:

You could do the bore & hone yourselves and then send it to Bill for the Silicone Carbide, if desired.

If he is reasonable on the coating job just by itself (and is willing to share super secret clearance measurements lol) then that may be an option.

I was flipping through a couple of the "big bore" threads and I'm sure it was you that just did the 97mm build... how is it holding up?

I "accidentally" broke off the studs that hold that stupid heavy honking exhaust on the bike while removing it... Contemplating a shorty cheapo glass pack, some torch and welder play... then some ceramic paint and exhaust wrap... How much back pressure did you shoot for with the volumetric increase when you decided on exhaust?

Did you have both the cylinder and piston coated? It looks like he offers both, and a variety of options for piston coating (top, skirt, all).

I do not remember the exact cost off hand. It the last time I looked the cost for a bore/hone/silicone carbide was $185.

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LANCER

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #74 - 09/24/17 at 14:41:22

Christof13T wrote on 08/16/17 at 22:25:12:

Gotcha.

This tick/knock really has me scratching my head.
It's source seems to move with my ear lol.
I did not feel any significant vibration associated with the tick/knock at the case cover behind the oil filter cover. I previously did not hear the noise around the head... but listening to it earlier today I just can't be sure. It's not quite to that tell tell sign of a counterweight kissing the bottom of the piston from rod journal being chewed but darn if it doesn't sound like that double tick of slack being taken up at tdc and bdc and the lightest kiss of the piston to the head. I still cant fathom that much damage at the mileage unless someone ran it with no oil at some point?

I had a very similar situation with a knocking sound that was really hard to isolate. It turned out to be the piston slapping. The engine still ran pretty strong and the knocking even disappeared once off idle a bit. After a new piston and cleaning up the cylinder and honing it again, it runs really freaking good !

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