SuzukiSavage.com - Another new toy, Another new forum...

justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #45 - 09/18/17 at 16:00:09 You couldn't get it running. It didn't have compression. Now, you discovered the valves were too tight, and solved that, and now you have compression. Should you pull the motor and take it apart?
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Christof13T

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #46 - 09/18/17 at 17:28:53

I discovered 1 valve under clearance. ..
The bike does run... it just maxed out at 87psi on compression test before the valve adjustment.
This all started as stated early in the thread that it lost power on a sustained 80mph ride, acted like it ran out of fuel and made a bunch of popping backfire like noise from around the exhaust area...
Pulled in to the fuel station and it was kinda ticking...almost knocking.
120 psi is more compression than it had...but still at the bottom of the spectrum. For a bike with 4k miles on it, that is concerning.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #47 - 09/18/17 at 17:40:51 What's the best direction? Test it and see what you have Or Tear into it? I would want to see how it goes before I went further.
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Christof13T

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #48 - 09/19/17 at 12:12:04

I put it back together...
Fired it up.
It still runs... *surprise surprise*...
It's still knocking (sounds like loose metal bits on a rotating assembly taking up slack)
It is now puffing oily smoke out of the tailpipe.

No more suggestions required... I'm ripping it apart.
(as soon as I can get the proper puller for the rotor lol)

Don't you hate it when people post bad advice on your thread, and knowing better... you follow it out of frustration (or hope) anyway?

To recap...

Symptoms now list as follows:

A knock/slap in the low front area of crank case.
Oil consumption
Low compression
Stator side exhaust valve was a little tight... corrected to bring compression up to 120#.

Cam chain and tensioner appear to have no signs of damage or significant wear.
Cam lobes look perfect.

I still keep forgetting to grab my buddy's inspection camera to peek in the jug... I will try to remember it this evening.

Since the valve adjustment did cause compression to increase... I'm assuming the valves are ok. At this point, experience tells me I have a hole in the piston, burnt rings... or a scored jug. The knock/slap is likely either the piston flopping in the jug... or the flywheel nut is in fact loose.

How common is it for the flywheel nut to come loose under hard compression braking? I tend to compression brake much more aggressively than I probably should. Like to the point of barking the rear tire... So just curious.

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Dave

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #49 - 09/19/17 at 12:51:04

I don't think riding style can loosen the flywheel nut...most likely it is just assembly error. The nut was working loose on mine with only 400 miles on the odometer.

Rolling off the throttle and letting the engine slow the bike down doesn't hurt a thing - but I don't downshift in a way chirps the back tire or causes the engine to jump to high rpm when the clutch is let out...just a few gentle downshifts as I slow down.

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ohiomoto

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #50 - 09/20/17 at 06:06:11

Christof13T wrote on 09/19/17 at 12:12:04:

No more suggestions required... I'm ripping it apart.
(as soon as I can get the proper puller for the rotor lol)

Don't you hate it when people post bad advice on your thread, and knowing better... you follow it out of frustration (or hope) anyway?

---------------------------------------------

I don't think all of the advise was bad. You got this nugget over a month ago...

ohiomoto wrote on 08/19/17 at 08:21:08:

....

Ultimately, I think you are in for a rebuild of some sort here and you won't know what it is exactly until you tear it down. If you are lucky, it will be in the top end.

---------------------------------------------

And you knew it all along, but I completely understand the frustration and hope part. Don't beat yourself (or anyone else) up over it.

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #51 - 09/20/17 at 06:39:11 The members have some tools available and engine support designs exist. You've done the preliminaries and learned as much as possible. Now, do you tear into it and see what it's gonna take or just go hunting for a used engine? I'd hafta see what is wrong and figure out the cost of repair.
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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #52 - 09/21/17 at 04:29:30

Does anyone know if the oil drain plug bolt trick works on the ls650 rotor?

ohiomoto, true... Just really didn't want it all to unfold this way lol.
I was trying to hold out until I could check the valve clearances in hopes of finding something simple out of whack.

justin_o_guy2,
The reference to bad advice was just a friendly prod... I appreciate the bid of hope as I really wanted it to just run happy after the valve adjustment. If nothing else... I'm getting pretty familiar with all my bike's naughty bits Grin

lol.

I did minimal reassembly to test run it after the valve adjustment. All the vanity covers are still off, right side foot peg and brake control still hanging by the cables... once I pull the exhaust, tank and carb again it will be pretty well stripped back down to where I started. Still need to rig up a strap or something to suspend the front end so I can remove the left side foot peg and shifter assembly and then out comes the heart. Guess I better get all the broken chainsaw junk off my workbench and get to it...

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Dave YaBB Moderator ModSquad Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 18101 Camp Springs, Kentucky Gender:	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #53 - 09/21/17 at 04:35:25 Christof13T wrote on 09/21/17 at 04:29:30: Does anyone know if the oil drain plug bolt trick works on the ls650 rotor? I don't know what trick you are referring to? The crank/rotor connection is a taper with a key......you need a puller to get it off.
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Christof13T Full Member Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 211 Vicoria, Texas Gender:	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #54 - 09/21/17 at 05:14:50 Something similar to this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfylmIU_4ew
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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #55 - 09/21/17 at 05:58:12

The LS650 flywheel isn't threaded on the inside.....the threads are on the outside.

I have the tools that are needed,and I do rent them out. The rental rate is $20, there is a $100 deposit....and you pay shipping both ways. The tools are unfortunately too big to fit in a small flat rate box, and they are heavy - it may be the medium flat rate box is the cheapest at $13.60 each way. If you don't need the large deep socket and holder for the flywheel - the puller will fit in a smaller box that may be cheaper to ship....but it is still a bit heavy.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1504271719

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justin_o_guy2 Serious Thumper Offline What happened? Posts: 55279 East Texas, 1/2 dallas/la.	Re: Another new toy, Another new forum... Reply #56 - 09/21/17 at 06:56:07 Christof13T wrote on Today at 12:29:30: Does anyone know if the oil drain plug bolt trick works on the ls650 rotor? Yes. Removing the plug and running the engine until it stops will keep you from needing to worry about pulling the rotor.
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Christof13T

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #57 - 09/21/17 at 07:01:36

I offer a similar deposit and rental rate on tools from my boxes lol...
Thanks though, I'll just get my own or make one next time I visit a buddy with a beefy lathe. I want to, but can't justify the coin for a 50mmx1.5 tap to build one here when a new puller from fleabay is 40$ shipped...

I will be focusing on getting to know my yzf600r a little better until i can get the right tools to take care of my Savage. It is missing both the plastic side covers... so I was kind of thinking of freshening up the paint while its all apart and playing with some sheet metal to one-off some covers... Will see how I feel... Still kinda disgusted with it even though I probably caused it by pushing it too hard. 80mph should not be too much or a 650 to handle...

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #58 - 09/21/17 at 08:05:18

Wow......I didn't realize you could buy the puller so cheaply. When I bought mine is was over $60, and the socket was around $18...and I made the flywheel holder. China and eBay are sure making it easy to get tools cheaply!

Here is a puller for $28.47 shipped...the feedback says they work fine!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pit-Posse-PP3271-Flywheel-Rotor-Magneto-Puller-Tool-5...

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Christof13T

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Re: Another new toy, Another new forum...
Reply #59 - 09/22/17 at 17:45:09

So I yanked the motor out... heavy but easily manageable.
Finding the right dang hex socket to get the rear brackets off took me longer than most of the wrench work...

Valve cover off...
nothing of major significance.
no scoring or significant wear on the cam lobes or bearing surfaces.
cam gear looks fine.

Removed cam...
Ride surfaces are slightly (may still be factory tool marks) scored but nothing out of tolerance.

Head removed...
Rusty colored exhaust valves.
oily wet black intake valves.
no burns or bends or cracks visible.

Piston top looked fine, cylinder looked fine... until...

rotated the crank to drop the piston and thar` she was...
The cylinder is scored all the way around.

When I pulled the jug off the block I immediately found the source of the "knock/slap"...

The piston has been rocking back and forth in the jug like a see saw slapping the crap out of itself.

Fortunately I opted to tear it down before something catastrophic let loose. a fresh jug and piston and I think it will be good as new.

so...
Affordable sources for new jugs and pistons anybody?

And what is a good place to host images to post on here... I wanna share this gruesome &h17.

I can not see any signs of damage whatsoever in the bottom end. No excessive free or end play. Rod looks fine. I think I will hold out from splitting the case.

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