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new rings? (Read 527 times)
savageguy1
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new rings?
06/26/17 at 13:59:10
 
I believe I need new piston rings , but I am  told that I need to hone the cylinder to get the scratches out also, but cannot find any oversize rings to fit the piston after honing.
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savageguy1
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Re: new rings?
Reply #1 - 06/26/17 at 14:08:37
 
also my header bolts broke while I was riding, I was told that that may have cause the rings to fry.
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savageguy1
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Re: new rings?
Reply #2 - 06/26/17 at 14:24:19
 
do you guys have any suggestions?
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Re: new rings?
Reply #3 - 06/26/17 at 14:54:16
 
honing and boring are 2 different things. if you only hone the cylinder you will need the same size rings as you took out. reboring, you'll need oversize rings. too bad about thebroken bolts. good luck getting them out.
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Re: new rings?
Reply #4 - 06/26/17 at 14:56:54
 
The piston needs to have a tight fit on the cylinder.
She's a big lady with a short skirt, something gonna be exposed if she tips even a little bit.
If you need over sized rings, you gonna need an over sized piston.
You need to pull the piston and cylinder to measure.
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Re: new rings?
Reply #5 - 06/26/17 at 15:00:17
 
savageguy1 wrote on 06/26/17 at 14:24:19:
do you guys have any suggestions?


A second opinion.
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1st2know
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Re: new rings?
Reply #6 - 06/26/17 at 17:02:44
 
savageguy1 wrote on 06/26/17 at 13:59:10:
I believe I need new piston rings ...  


Why do you think you need new rings?
Have you found pieces of the piston rings in the oil?

How many miles on the engine?
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batman
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Re: new rings?
Reply #7 - 06/26/17 at 17:31:15
 
1st2Know , has a point ,why do you think you need rings ? If you don't have lots of miles on the bike. Having broken the bolts on the exhaust I think it is more likely that you warped the exhaust valves ,if you have a lack of compression .Tell us your mileage, and what you were doing ,and if you drove after the exhaust bolts broke.
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Re: new rings?
Reply #8 - 06/26/17 at 19:46:52
 
Top end diagnostics is pretty straightforward, but requires some specialized tools and experience.
I start by looking at all the parts. Look at the rings for wear/break-in patterns. Look for even wear on the ring face, especially the middle ring. If you only see a little bit of wear on the face of the middle ring, prob the motor wasn't broken in properly.
Check out the piston between the ring lands. There should be minimal crud between the top and middle ring lands, and almost non between the middle and oil ring lands.
With a micrometer, measure the piston skirt near the bottom. Take a few measurements.
With a dial bore gauge, measure the cylinder-top, middle, and bottom. Check for out-of-round at each point by making multiple measurements at each depth.
Compare the piston diameter with the cylinder diameter. The manual will have wear specs. Usually the rings can deal with taper in the bore better than they can deal with out-of-round. Obviously, straight and round is the best.
On the race bikes, I make up top and bottom torque plates that can be bolted to using the stock cylinder bolts. With these plates in place, I'll measure the cylinder to get a more accurate read with the cylinder distorted by it's clamping forces.
I like to run bikes with piston to wall at the tight end of the range. This makes for a cooler running, quieter motor. But it also means you are more likely to seize if you don't play nice.
On my R65, the piston-to-wall is .0008". As in, less than a thousandth of an inch. I had to buy the cylinder a few drinks to get the piston in.

Often ring trouble can be traced to improper break-in.
My ritual:
Use a break-in oil in the bottom end. Proper amount.. There aren't too many out there. Dumb, petroleum oil. Honda, Amsoil, and Motul make oils suitable for break in.
Hone the cylinder using a Flex Hone, honing oil, and the proper technique. After honing, thoroughly wash the inside of the cylinder using hot soapy water.
Assemble the rings on the piston dry. Put a dot of oil on the piston skirt.
Resist the urge to slather oil all over.
Once the motor is assembled and the valves adjusted, put a fan in front of the motor. Start it up and hold to 2, 000 RPMs for about 30 seconds. There will prob be some smoke coming out of the exhaust, and it'll decrease quickly.
After 30 seconds at 2K, hop on the bike and ride.
Vary the revs. Go for the mid range, not lugging, or revving the nuts off the bike. Don't hold steady throttle openings, and don't sit in traffic.
By 100 miles, the rings are either broken in or never will be.
The goal here is to use the cross hatch from the honing to scuff the rings in. If you oil up everything, or take it too easy, the rings never have a chance to get up close and personal with the cylinder wall.
YMMV, but this works for me.
NB: the nice thing about using a used barrel for a big bore, is that it has probably distorted all that it ever will, and will stay rounder and straighter than a new one. Again, doing the stone (not the bead honing) honing with a torque plate helps.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: new rings?
Reply #9 - 06/26/17 at 20:32:59
 
Go visit some machine shops, and if there is a small engine repair shop, talk to some people. Get prices for inspecting the piston and cylinder. Prices for honing,
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savageguy1
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Re: new rings?
Reply #10 - 06/27/17 at 16:50:21
 
28k on the engine, no bits in the oil but I have no power, I was riding down the interstate about 75mph, then I heard a noise and pulled over saw the broken bolts it was sprinkleing so I limped to a hotel (4 miles) and had it trailered in the morning. fixed the bolts and later the valves sounded really bad, so I adjusted them and rode around, felt like I kept slowly losing power and then I could only reach 45 and I knew I had an issue. Today I got to the cylinder and measured the rings ( I don't have the tools yet to measure the wall)  they where fine.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: new rings?
Reply #11 - 06/27/17 at 17:21:42
 
Have you checked the cam chain?
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savageguy1
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Re: new rings?
Reply #12 - 06/28/17 at 06:35:56
 
yes its fine did the mod to it as soon as I got the bike, also the carb is very clean.
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batman
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Re: new rings?
Reply #13 - 06/28/17 at 19:33:48
 
You need to check the valves! There are only two ways to lose power (compression ) bad rings ( not with only 28,000 on the motor) or valves not seating , more likely do to the exhaust coming loose, because it allowed cold outside air to be drawn it the exhaust port which hit your hot exhaust valves causing them to warp and not seat properly( " later the valves sounded really bad " ) Your words ,not mine! I would strongly doubt there 's any damage to the piston or the rings ,they deal with changes in temp all the time(cold intake mix -hot combustion/exhaust gases)You have the head off turn it up-side-down(sparkplug installed) and fill it with water ,the valves are closed ,they should hold,if they don't you've found your problem!I'm betting you'll see water running out the exhaust port.
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: new rings?
Reply #14 - 06/29/17 at 07:32:33
 
savageguy1 wrote on 06/29/17 at 07:23:35:
batman you where right!



About what?
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