SuzukiSavage.com - Engine not turning (Hard to turn manually)

Gary_in_NJ Serious Thumper Offline LS650 Cafe Racer Posts: 2633 Amongst the Twisty Roads	Re: Engine not turning (Hard to turn manually) Reply #45 - 04/17/17 at 15:39:45 WOT, at low rpms is good for break in. It creates high cylinder pressure without excessive heat.
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batman Serious Thumper Offline SuzukiSavage.com Rocks! Posts: 3806 osceola new york Gender:	Re: Engine not turning (Hard to turn manually) Reply #46 - 04/17/17 at 19:55:29 Gary ,I'm a bit confused, how do you get low RPMs with a wide open throttle?
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Kris01 Serious Thumper Offline Eat, sleep, RIDE! Posts: 3767 Tennessee Gender:	Re: Engine not turning (Hard to turn manually) Reply #47 - 04/17/17 at 20:03:58 I think he means to open the throttle fully from idle instead of jerking it open from halfway or so while cruising at 3500 rpms. Starting from a higher rpm will start with more heat.
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Re: Engine not turning (Hard to turn manually)
Reply #48 - 04/18/17 at 01:52:26

I suppose WOT (Wide Open Throttle?) is most relevant for cylinder/piston/ring break-in, but I can't see how that will influence what happens between cam shaft and rocker arms.

My thinking about what influences pressure between the cam shaft and rocker arms is limited to lubrication, valve spring force and RPM's, where higher RPM's will result in higher accelerations of the rocker arms and therefore also higher forces ultimately resulting in higher pressure between the cam shaft and rocker arms.
However, higher RPM's also result in more oil pressure, hence the need to make sure there are enough RPM's to generate sufficient oil pressure to keep those surfaces well lubricated.

I don't think the cam shaft and rocker arms can "feel" any difference between being rotated by forces from gasoline being burned or from being dragged by the rear wheel, while for example the piston rings will see a significant difference between the two.

Does this make sense, or...?

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Re: Engine not turning (Hard to turn manually)
Reply #49 - 04/18/17 at 02:54:24

The comments about opening/closing the throttle, and at what speeds to ride are all related to the cylinder/piston ring break in. Since you didn't change the piston rings.....those issues don't change.

The camshaft break in is a lot less fussy - you aren't supposed to idle the engine for the first 10 minutes of operation. They want a lot of oil on the cam, they want the cam to be moving fast so they oil doesn't have time to squeeze from between the cam lobe/rocker, and you should have been provided a cam assembly lube that has a lot of "stuff" in it to keep the cam from scuffing for the first few minutes. (Probably a moly and ZDDP paste).

Don't overdo the engine running without being ridden.......the engine is air cooled and designed to be ridden - not stationary.

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Gary_in_NJ

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Re: Engine not turning (Hard to turn manually)
Reply #50 - 04/18/17 at 05:48:07

batman wrote on 04/17/17 at 19:55:29:
Gary ,I'm a bit confused, how do you get low RPMs with a wide open throttle?

Crack the throttle open (WOT) at 2,000 rpm and allow the engine to increase rpm to 4,000. You have high cylinder pressure and low (not redline) rpm. Makes for happy valve guides, seats and piston rings.

Cams don't necessarily need a break in. What will wear a cam in hour 1 will do the same in hour 1,000. Cams need oil, so set your idle rpm to no less then 1,300 rpm. Excessive idling is not good.

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Re: Engine not turning (Hard to turn manually)
Reply #51 - 04/18/17 at 14:15:56

Just a status from here... Had a 1 hour drive today, while we had some less than wonderful late year snow... Angry

Luckily it was not much, so not a big issue driving.

I haven't given it some throttle yet, as I want to drive it easy for some hundred kilometers just in case, but so far it feels and sounds VERY nice.

I think I could hear some slight ticking from the valves towards the end of the drive. I suppose this is to be expected, considering new rocker-arms with their included adjustment screws?

Originally the plan was to re-build the bike a bit, but then I found out the cam shaft and rocker arms were bad, so I ended up "only" giving the engine a major overhaul.

Below is a few photos from this evening:

Very, very, very happy about it at this point... Now looking forward to some better weather and some good long cruises. Cheesy

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Mekh

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Re: Engine not turning (Hard to turn manually)
Reply #52 - 05/20/17 at 23:53:12

Just a quick little follow up here...

I have now put about 2-3000km on the clock since I fixed this issue and it has been driving just fine (when warm).

Yesterday however, I think it sounded like it had a small leak from the head gasket, which is probably because I have not re-tightened the header bolts as they should have been.

This goes together with a distinct (not problematic) ticking from the valves, so today I will re-tighten the header bolts and re-adjust the valves afterwards.

When I have checked that it runs fine, I will re-jet it a bit richer, and see what that does for it... (Having received a jet set from Lancer

)

I might even put on my muffled (DIY) Raask exhaust, just to see what it does for its looks and sound.

Very happy with how it runs so far, and I just had the bike pass 65.000km (+40.000 miles) the other day, but hoping my renovation has put quite a few more kilometers in it

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