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High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit (Read 226 times)
mconigliaro
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High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
03/21/17 at 09:22:39
 
I finished my Ryca CS-1 conversion last week, and now I'm trying to get the carb tuning right. I'm curious to hear what jets other people in high-elevation areas are using. Ryca's official recommendation is as follows:

"After many trials we recommend in 9 out of 10 applications a 52.5 (stock) pilot jet and a 150 main jet for the CS-1 and other models with a k&n and a pipe..(55/155 is too rich usually)”

I asked them if living in Denver (5000+ feet above sea level) would change this recommendation at all, and they told me to start with 55/152.5, then back up the main jet one size to 150 if I notice any cutting out or hesitation. This seemed odd to me, because don't we have less oxygen at higher elevations? Shouldn't I need a smaller jet to get the ratio right?

Anyway, I ended up trying both pilot jets (the 52.5 stock one, and the 55 that came with the Ryca kit) and I noticed very little difference between them. The main thing was that I needed to use the choke to get the bike started on a 70+ degree day with the smaller jet, so I took that as a sign to put the larger one back in. However, I'm still not sure this is right, because once the bike is warmed up, I can't get it to stall with the idle mix screw all the way in (I couldn't do it with the smaller jet either). My noob understanding based on all the YouTube videos I've watched over the last few days is that if you can't stall the bike this way, your pilot jet is too big. Is it possible that both pilot jets are still too big, or am I just missing something?
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Gary_in_NJ
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #1 - 03/21/17 at 09:48:49
 
mconigliaro wrote on 03/21/17 at 09:22:39:
I asked them if living in Denver (5000+ feet above sea level) would change this recommendation at all, and they told me to start with 55/152.5, then back up the main jet one size to 150 if I notice any cutting out or hesitation. This seemed odd to me, because don't we have less oxygen at higher elevations? Shouldn't I need a smaller jet to get the ratio right?


Your instincts are correct, that is just wrong advice. You are doing it correctly by checking the pilot with the air screw. A cold bike (even in the summer) should need the choke on the first start of the day. If it doesn't it's a sure sign that the pilot is too large (rich mixture).

When adjusting jetting always make sure you have:

Fresh Fuel
New Plug
Clean Air Filter

The bike needs to be completely warmed up before you make adjustments. Put the 52.5 in and adjust the air screw again. My gut tells me you'll need a 50 or 47.5.

From there you can move on to the needle and main. I'd start with a 150 main. For both the needle and main you will make adjustments based on throttle response. You want linear power delivery at WOT and no surging at partial (cruise) setting. You want a smooth transition from needle to main.
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Dave
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #2 - 03/21/17 at 09:52:22
 
Don't pay any attention to if you need a choke or not to start the bike cold.....some bikes like the choke, and some don't.  I have never seen that the pilot jet size has much of an effect on that.

The correct pilot jet size is the one that results in the smoothest running when the pilot mixture screw is 1.5 turns out.  If you can turn the screw all the way in and the engine doesn't begin to stumble - the pilot jet is too big.  If you have to turn the screw out more than 2.5 turns to get smooth running...the pilot jet is too big.  At my elevation of 500 - 800', the 50 or 52.5 is the best choice.....it depends on the bike and air cleaner setup.....muffler choices don't really affect idle mixture.  You likely will need a 50 or smaller.

Next is the main jet - a #150 is probably a good place to start at your elevation. , and unless the RYCA air cleaner does weird things, it should be plenty rich.  If you get a good strong pull at sustained full throttle....pay attention to what happens if when you begin to roll the throttle off.  If the bike feels like it is accelerating...your main jet is too lean - if you feel the engine hesitate or blubber a bit for a split second......your main jet is too big.  I tend to install a larger jet and see if the bike runs smoother, then continue installing larger jets until I notice it is just too rich.

The last thing to adjust is the height of the needle.  If you have surging and an uneven running just off idle to about 1/8 throttle, you need to raise the needle by reducing the size of the spacer on top of the needle clip.

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mconigliaro
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #3 - 03/21/17 at 10:04:49
 
Thanks guys. For what it's worth, the motor definitely starts to stumble when I turn the idle mix screw in (for both pilot jets). It just never stalls, so I thought that might mean something. Should it also stumble when I turn the screw out? Because that never happens. I notice the RPMs go down slightly, but it's very subtle.
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #4 - 03/21/17 at 10:29:06
 
You need to lower your idle speed a bit when you adjust the idle fuel mixture - it should be down around 800 rpm.  You don't want to ride the bike with the speed so low - but you cannot adjust the mixture with the engine at 1,100 rpm.....or you will experience exactly what you are getting.  At the higher idle speed the slide needle may be allowing some fuel to flow......and it masks what is happening in the pilot jet circuit.

Here are a couple of good videos that may help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxpQjDQzX7g&t=16s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm5mB3R8Ucw&t=30s
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mconigliaro
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #5 - 03/21/17 at 14:00:51
 
Thanks Dave. I had actually found those videos you posted on my own a couple days ago, but the key was to lower the idle speed like you suggested (previously, I was increasing it slightly as suggested by some other video I saw). Once I did that, the sweet spot became obvious at about 2 turns out on the idle mix screw. So hopefully I'm good now, at least on the pilot jet.
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #6 - 04/07/17 at 14:59:25
 
Quick update now that I've had more time to experiment with the jets.

I still don't understand why, but the 55 pilot jet definitely seems to be the correct one for Denver. When I put the 52.5 (stock) one back in this afternoon, I found that I could turn the idle mix screw all the way out (almost 3 turns) without getting the motor to stumble. With the 55, the sweet spot seems to be around 1.5 to 2 turns out, so I've left it at 1.75.

I'm still not noticing a difference between the 152.5 and 150 main jet, so I've left the 152.5 in for now. I think my problem is that I'm not entirely sure I know what I'm looking for here, so when I have some more time, I guess I'll try an even larger main jet to see if things become more obvious.
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #7 - 04/07/17 at 16:50:08
 
You are right in your assumption that the air is thinner at your elevation, if your not seeing a difference between the 150 and the 152.5 it's because they're both to large.(rich) your stock jet a 145 might be the place to start,to test you get the bike warmed up and go to wot (wide open throttle)in say 4th gear ,when it's pulling hard you close the throttle 1/8 turn ,if the bike gains speed (the mixture going lean) the jet is to small.If the bike hesitates ,bogs the jet is to large(the mixture is to rich).Normally the 150 is a good all a round jet ,but with your elevation ,air cleaner and exhaust you might need the stock 145 or a 147.5 or larger,you 'll have to determine by testing.keep in mind that running slightly rich won't hurt the motor,and won't make you run lean if you come down the mountain ,but running lean makes the motor run hotter which could cause increased wear over time .When tuning the idle jet,screwing the jet all the way in may not stall the motor ,nor screwing it out make it stumble ,your looking for the highest RPM when the screw is between 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 turns open.
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #8 - 04/09/17 at 20:05:29
 
I live in CO not too far from you, but at a higher elevation (7400 ft), and for the last few months I have been riding mostly at 6500 up to 7500 feet altitude. I have the stock carb with the stock jets on my 2015 S40.  It is also running with the stock exhaust. It runs well, but I used to have a lot of afterfiring on closing the throttle. I took the plug in front of the mixture screw, and the screw is now at 2 1/2 turns out. The bike runs very well and I have no more afterfiring. I don't think the bike is running rich. Maybe I am just lucky, but the carb settings which are lean at sea level just seem to work fine for me at high altitude with just an adjustment of the mixture screw.

I hope you get your bike running well soon. Good luck.
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mconigliaro
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #9 - 05/13/17 at 17:05:09
 
It's really been bothering me that I found the 55 pilot jet to be the right size for Denver, considering that Ryca usually recommends the stock 52.5 pilot jet for their kit. Logically, I should need the 52.5 (or smaller, not bigger) for my elevation. So I decided to take Dave's and Batman's advice and ignore the fact that I can't get my bike to stumble by fully opening the idle mix screw with the stock pilot jet. I put that jet back in, set the idle mix screw to 1.5 turns out and went for a ride around town. The first thing I noticed was a lot more backfiring than usual when closing the throttle. Ryca says the bike will always backfire a bit, but mine seemed pretty excessive, so I took JLC's advice to open the idle mix screw a bit more. I'm now at two turns out, and that seems to have taken care of most of the backfiring. Additionally, the smaller pilot jet seems to have solved a problem I've noticed lately where the bike would randomly stall while idling. Since JLC is having good luck at 2.5 turns out, I'll probably mess with the screw a bit more and see if I can improve things further.

I'm still experimenting with the main jet, but again, since Ryca usually recommends a 150 main jet for their kit, it doesn't make any sense to me that anything bigger than 150 would be right for high elevations. I'm now at 147.5 for the main, which seems OK so far, but I'm going to keep experimenting.
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #10 - 05/14/17 at 16:04:59
 
Mike ,you need to read Dave's first post above that's where he describes how to set your idle adjustment ,not by turning it and driving the bike! You can however test the main jet, run the bike in a higher gear with wide open throttle,then close the throttle by 1/8 ,if the bike speeds up the main jet is to small,(the bike is going lean), if the motor bogs ,the jet is to large (the bike is to rich).
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mconigliaro
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Re: High altitude carb tuning with Ryca kit
Reply #11 - 05/25/17 at 15:48:00
 
Oh, I read all the responses. I was just a little confused by the conflicting information I found elsewhere when trying to determine the idle jet size.

For what it's worth, I'm still using the stock 52.5 idle jet with two turns out on the idle mix screw and the 147.5 main jet, and this seems to be the best combo so far.
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« Last Edit: 05/28/17 at 17:15:38 by mconigliaro »  
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