Oldfeller--FSO
Serious Thumper ModSquad
Offline
Hobby is now "concentrated neuropany"
Posts: 12647
Fayetteville, NC
Gender: 
|
Piedmontbuckeye, now you begin to understand the "Oil War Rule" that you always post the link to your source material so folks can see where the info came from and can read it and interpret it for themselves.
It saves Dave from having to debunk wrong statements from "somewhere" and it forces the casual poster to think about (and to grasp the 4 aspects of it) about the appropriate oil for a Savage. Not that this thought process is bad for us to go do occasionally, we get a constant stream of new people in here and we need to RESTATE this general knowledge every once and a while anyway just so new folks can see it.
1) The Savage has an antique SPLIT flat tappet valve train, the type of flat tappet system that runs two valves off of one lobe and that has the very highest tappet contact pressure of those old type of valve actuation systems. This type of valve system needs ZDDP in the oil, and it needs appreciable amounts of it. 1,200 to 1,350 PPM is the best range, based on past experience. We bump our oils to get up to this level as it doesn't come from the jug with enough ZDDP any more (not even Rotella).
2) The Savage has a clutch system that has arguably too few steels and fibers for a modified engine's peak torque / HP levels. This situation shows worst on a cold engine, first accelerations past 2nd and third gears where we tend to use full throttle. We tend to mod our bikes for higher engine torque and HP output, so our clutch system becomes in turn more sensitive to energy star modifiers (friction reducers) and mechanical adjustment issues.
3) Oil in a Savage breaks down and tends to leave the engine faster as it gets older. I used to use Rotella T6 to combat this breakdown issue, but then Rotella began to put more and more Moly Oil into their full synthetic formulations, the amount went from 0 to 40ppm then up to 70ppm which aggravated slippage in my engine and I found that dino Rotella didn't have this moly issue (still at 0 PPM for Moly additive).
Changing back to Dino Rotella stopped the peak torque slippage issue immediately after the first oil change back to Rotella dino 15w40. HOWEVER, when the dino oil gets old and tired, slip issues tend to come back and become noticeable again.
So, oil is an important part of the Savage and we treat it as such. Does everyone have slippage ??? Heck no they do not. (blessed, they are) However, slippage is understood and the fixes are understood as well. Old heavily modded bikes are worse compared to low mileage stock output scoots ....
The last item isn't oil, it is MECHANICAL in nature.
4) Clutch push rods and clutch engagement. Versy states that ideal clutch push rod protrusion is circa 12-13mm of protrusion from the clutch pack. This translates to the correct placement of the clutch actuation lever to the marks on the gear case.
Suzuki supplies 3 different lengths of push rods so users can tune this engagement zone because you will need all 3 push rod lengths as the clutch pack itself wears and gets "shorter" over time. The push rods themselves will also wear in use due to rotational rubbing, but the rods wear in a direction that is functionally assbackwards from the clutch fiber plate wear effects, which makes it difficult for the casual reader to grasp what is going on. Rod wear effects tend to be larger and faster occurring than the fiber plate wear effects.
Does our clutch "wear out" ??? Not really, as using a different clutch push rod length puts it back into the sweet zone for proper function. We generally check this when checking cam chain wear / hole placement on our modded cam chain tensioners.
Can our clutch plates get accidentally contaminated with Energy Star crap ??? Oh yes, just use the wrong oil for a while. Fibers and steels can be cleaned, see the Tech Sections for the how to information.
Folks with limited understanding tend to post as if all HDEO oils are OK for the Savage --- this is not completely true as moly additives are now in MANY HDEO oils now and at levels that are suspiciously high for a slip free Savage clutch.
=======================================
Dave, next time you have a clutch apart look at the basket and see if there is enough meat at the bottom for a lathe cut that will create some room for another steel and another fiber plate. This meat could come from the basket bottom or from the top pusher plate, or from both or by mebbe leaving out a "wasted" flat or beveled steel part that are in the stock stack up.
(Dave has a big lathe and he has broken down engines laying about and the knowledge skills for this sort of quick look at it type stuff. Plus, a modified clutch basket and/or top plate could be a Market Place item that some folks might want).
Ditto for Versy or Lancer, both have parts and baskets lying around their shops.
|
Pages: 
