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The real reason Hillary lost..... (Read 121 times)
raydawg
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The real reason Hillary lost.....
12/15/16 at 17:00:30
 
I have read much on why, yet I haven't seen this possibility advanced....

Remember  back 4 years ago, Obama was reeling from a disappointing first term, Romney was giving him fits, it was up for grabs.

Then came Benghazi.

Hillary's emails would most likely not have been an issue, as they had been off the radar screen until, in passing, by chance, in that Benghazi investigation, it was learned of.

Obama's ineptness would have cost him the election, maybe.
But why take a chance.
They scripted that lie, or what we now call, FAKE NEWS.....
To cover his ebony arse.

It fell all on Hillary.
She dug a hole, and had to keep digging, or chance exposure to the truth.
She got saddled with what Obama screwed up.

He has not learned, either, REDLINE my azz....

FACING 'CONSEQUENCES': Obama admin on defense as Aleppo falls  
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/12/15/obama-administration-on-defense-ov...

I dunno, but it sure fits a lot of the pieces into the puzzle....

Whadda you think?
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #1 - 12/15/16 at 20:05:33
 
"Obama admin on defense as Aleppo falls"

They have good reason to be defensive. And of course all the "Trump is soft on the Russkies and Putin helped him win" bullcrap is a component of that narrative.

Take a look at the chart in the link below, and see who you think is closer to the "moral high ground" that everyone jabbers on about, with regard to the debacle taking place in Syria.

The US (the Obama admin) got this one just as wrong as they got the situation in Libya. Assad, thanks to Russia. probably isn't going to have to try to hide in a drainage culvert waiting for the " moderate rebels" to discover and kill him though.  

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-15/nassim-taleb-syrian-war-condensed-al...
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #2 - 12/15/16 at 23:51:27
 
My two cents' worth.

The Assad Government (calling it a regime, by nations who have more secret intelligence agents than university professors, is hypocrisy)
may be totalitarian, but none more so than some "democratic" governments of the western world in the 1950's.

Actually, the Syrian government, being of secular orientation and of soviet socialist background, is far more democratic than some "champions of the West" republics.

That said, I have access to teh same news channels you have, with the difference I do access those channels.
I am not referring to CNN and FoxNews but to the BBC, Al Jazeera in English, etc.

Way back before the troubles started, a faction of Syrians was demonstrating for renewed elections.
The timeline is easily available for anyone caring to doublecheck their current beliefs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Syrian_Civil_War
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-14703995
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syrian-civil-war-timeline...

I will add that under Assad, Saddam Hussein etc. the Christian minorities led a quiet life;
then, after "help to from democracies of the West" they were persecuted, deported, sold into slavery, murdered etc.
Roll Eyes
Hmmm... so whom should we be thankful for ?
Roll Eyes
May I remind you that since 2011 US mercenaries went off on field trips to fight against Assad... Southern baptists fighting alongside Islamic extremists ?
Angry
Are you aware that the Syrian Army more than once captured US Army, USMC and even Israeli "consultants" in the course of battles with Islamic insurgents?

Do you not realize that this (the presence of foreign consultants advising insurgents) tantamounts to acts of war according to international law ?

And the White House still expects the world to believe "the US are fighting for democracy" ?

This table really says it all !

Quote:


Huh Huh Huh I am somehow skeptical...
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #3 - 12/16/16 at 03:03:31
 
Thanks pezzy for your input, always appreciated.
I will look into your links when I get time.

Why this sudden, or not so sudden, influx of displaced folk from this region of conflict has baffled me.....
Have we seen anything like it before in the world?
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #4 - 12/16/16 at 07:48:14
 
raydawg wrote on 12/16/16 at 03:03:31:
Why this sudden, or not so sudden, influx of displaced folk from this region of conflict has baffled me.....
Have we seen anything like it before in the world?


My wife is a medical doctor and she says the number of infertile Young couples is rising at an alarming rate.

On the other hand, immigration (90% of which illegal) from subsaharan (=Black) Africa is rising, at an average of 150000 (150thousand!) / year arranean and into Italy alone.

I also believe I read of Africans immigrating into America through the Mexican border, although this sounds a lot like a hoax.

Still, the big news is, these people are 100% muslims, and guess which rich oil-producing muslim nations are funding this immigration flux, yet refusing to host even just one in their own countries?

Yup ! Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Emirates... all friends of the White House...  Undecided...
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raydawg
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #5 - 12/16/16 at 08:06:26
 
One of your links, on the timeline credits this uprising to pa Assad not making a Muslim mandatory to lead Syria....
Is that right?
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“The biggest big business in America is not steel, automobiles, or television. It is the manufacture, refinement and distribution of anxiety.”—Eric Sevareid (1964)
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #6 - 12/17/16 at 11:10:17
 
Bashar al Assad grew up as the second born and went to University in London and became a dentist.

At the death of his Father his older Brother was destined to be Head of State.

Unfortunately (for bashar's Brother) things didn't go that way.

Culturally and politically speaking, Syria is much closer to Israel than one might think.

They are both secular and defend women's rights as well as those of cultural and religious minorities.
They are both nations with free health care and educaiton all the way up to College.
They will both issue passports and their citizens are free to roam the world.
All this applied to Saddam Hussein's Iraq, by the way, until he went rogue and invaded Kuwait.
(actually, he was entitled to do so much more than Gen. Austin was entitled to invade Texas, but tghat's another story)

Things went sour when the US invaded Iraq and started pumping Iraqi oil (without paying any of it) and expected to use Syrian pipelines.
Assad said "sure, you'll have to pay "rent".
More than natural, it's business.
GWB didn't want to pay.

No weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, no weapons of any kind in Syria, but "someone" still found a way to start a war where no war was required nor wanted by anyone

Tongue
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justin_o_guy2
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #7 - 12/17/16 at 11:51:27
 
Maybe my assertions about our involvement in the Arab Spring, the Bengazi arms deal, and the
Ooopsies, we can't find Isis to bomb them, ooopsies, that airdrop went right to Isis..

Our Smart bombs and hypersophisticated drones to destroy ONLY what must be destroyed SOMEHOW failed us while we were so intent on improving the lives of the Libyan people, because we destroyed the WORLDS LARGEST IRRIGATION SYSTEM..
Anyone who is willing to go outside the bubble can investigate what living in Libya was like. Ohhh and look at how we have helped.

Gadaffi TOLD the U.N.

If you eliminate me, the refugees will flood into Europe.

The refugee crisis isn't an
Unintended Consequence.


Order out of chaos.
Problem
Reaction
Solution

Gee, Libya was on the list in 2001.
And only 14 years later, we started hearing about WHY we had to be involved.

Open the eyes,people
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #8 - 12/17/16 at 12:50:08
 

Things went sour when the US invaded Iraq and started pumping Iraqi oil (without paying any of it) and expected to use Syrian pipelines.
Assad said "sure, you'll have to pay "rent".
More than natural, it's business.
GWB didn't want to pay


Yea, that sounds like bull$hit....
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #9 - 12/17/16 at 18:21:24
 
mpescatori wrote on 12/17/16 at 11:10:17:
" ... Culturally and politically speaking, Syria is much closer to Israel than one might think. ..."


And as to: “ …defend women’s rights as well as those of cultural and religious minorities….”

Really  ? Have not heard on the news, here, of a Israelite,
Beheading a  female, or Stoning her to death, or cutting off her clit with a piece of broken glass, or, raping her, or having sex with  a pre teen.

Or, Beheading a  female, or Stoning her to death, or throwing Acid on her face, because she did not wear a full face covering.

Have not heard of, a (alternate Lifestyle),  person being,  Be headed, Stoned to death, or thrown off a building.

Have Not heard of a,  ‘Christian’ faith, person, NOT, Be headed, Stoned to death, or thrown off a building, (because they did not believe, the,  ‘muslin’ faith.

Perhaps, in Italy, the ’news’ say something different ?

And: “ … this applied to Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, by the way, until he went rogue…”
So  ALL,  the ‘Humanitarian', Aid, from  SEVERAL   Countries,  which was for the,  ‘People’,  was  NOT,  Intercepted  by, Hussein, for his,  "GOLD   Toilet   SEATS”, and the like ?

OK,  Got it   LLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Oh,  BTY,  How  Many, Syrian, refugees, you have living in YOUR   House ?


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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #10 - 12/17/16 at 18:29:22
 
mpescatori wrote on 12/17/16 at 11:10:17:
" ... (actually, he was entitled to do so much more than Gen. Austin was entitled to invade Texas, but tghat's another story)..."


Did not know,  you collected, 'history' books from that time period.
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Ben Franklin once said: "If you give up a freedom, for the sake of security, you will have neither".
Which is More TRUE, today, than yesterday.('06, S-40, Stock) well, mostly .
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #11 - 12/18/16 at 11:25:43
 
Pesci has been around and looking at things, apparently through clear lenses. I'm comfortable in believing he could educate us regarding Austins invasion. Our history books glorify and justify everything we do. We are indoctrinated into the bubble. It's not easy to get out, and once Out, finding factual information that conflicts with and replaces the propaganda/indoctrination isn't easy.
That said
Directional drilling was tapping into the oil that rightfully belonged to Saddam. He asked our state department if they would care if he fought them over it.
Response?
Hey, that's your affair. Do what you think you should do.

That's not part of the talking points, is it?

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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #12 - 12/18/16 at 11:45:56
 
justin_o_guy2 wrote on 12/18/16 at 11:25:43:
Pesci has been around and looking at things, apparently through clear lenses. I'm comfortable in believing he could educate us regarding Austins invasion. Our history books glorify and justify everything we do. We are indoctrinated into the bubble. It's not easy to get out, and once Out, finding factual information that conflicts with and replaces the propaganda/indoctrination isn't easy.
That said
Directional drilling was tapping into the oil that rightfully belonged to Saddam. He asked our state department if they would care if he fought them over it.
Response?
Hey, that's your affair. Do what you think you should do.

That's not part of the talking points, is it?




Yeah, I'll go along with Jog on this....
I am not saying Pezzy is right, but I see no harm in challenging ones beliefs, even history.

Everyone tells a story with their own perspective, which is ripe with prejudice.
Look at Global warming as a good example.
If you challenge the findings, disagree, etc, you are not allowed to engage, you are minimized, ridiculed, and labeled....
Tell me, how does such behavior lead to understanding if we are afraid to shine the light on our own beliefs?

So, Pezzy, I give you permission, to continue  Grin
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #13 - 12/18/16 at 13:01:48
 
I'm not granting permission, I'm straight up Asking him to Please,elaborate on the point about Austin and the invasion.
And please, do the elementary school version and start with why he shouldn't have done it. What made him think it was right?



I've been reading


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Revolution

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican–American_War


Best I can tell, American people had gone into Mexico in the region that is now Texas and the political climate of Mexico and how things were working out for the Americans just wasn't satisfactory to them. I'm not going to try to write a book.
The question I have remains, who alerted Austin to the need for help, who did Austin work for, where was his authority to go into what was then Mexico, and on and on.

What IF our governmental approach to foreign settlers changed and America became hostile to the Mexicans here illegally and the Mexican government sent troops to protect their interests?
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The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.- Edmund Burke.
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Re: The real reason Hillary lost.....
Reply #14 - 12/18/16 at 13:19:26
 
You can't rewind the clock dude.....
To compare then, with now, though technically the same, we have progressed against the expansionism mindset of those who days for a more civilized approach.
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