cheapnewb24 wrote on 08/18/16 at 08:47:31:



And, once again, the details come out.

After how long? After some time... not immediately... minutes??? No more than a few hours later I'd say.

So, was there anything done differently with the one that stripped? I was in the last stage. I forget how many bolts I had torqued to 45 before that one. Not sure... I was probably mildly aware that torquing twice could cause problems, so I likely went straight for the clicker on the last stage. Again... not sure.
Were they all torqued in stages? I did torque them in stages, partly for the purpose of comparing the two torque wrenches. I doubt I had never really used the beam type before. I believe I started at 30 with-- I don't know-- maybe a couple stages above that.
I'm guessing not. Methinks you guessed wrong.

Here is something for the inexperienced.

When assembling things, get all the bolts started.
Then, gently snug them, working a pattern. A head on a V8 has a different pattern than a wheel, but the concept is the same. On a sprocket, I would not even use a torque wrench. I know what Tight feels like. But I Would get all the bolts in, snug in a crossing pattern and continue In that pattern gradually increasing the torque until I Felt the bolts come tight. If I knew that they were Supposed to be able to Take 45pounds I would be looking at the effort I was putting out and length of the ratchet and maybe even add a cheater pipe to make it easier for me.
Six bolts ,, consider the Clamping Force of six bolts. The thread angle of the bolts, the finer the thread, the less angle. So, a fine thread with a given torque will clamp tighter than a coarse thread with the same torque, all else being equal.
Take six bolts, and think about just how hard it will be to make sure that sprocket is not gonna move.
What kinda power is it getting?
What was the
Recommended Torque you were given?Usually, it's a range, not a specific target. On the Savage the torque specs are often very wide. Just because a torque spec is listed in a book doesn't mean that a torque wrench is needed.

Great... I can't tell you certainly I used a crossing pattern, but I most likely did. I might have been better off without a torque wrench as, then, I may have used my intuition rather than a number.

That
It just got easier to turn
Feeling?
You don't know it yet but your body learned what it feels like Just as it starts. Do that a few more times and You will develop the feel of a bolt coming to its full potential and more isn't better..

I take it that you're saying that it slows down at getting significantly harder to turn (not necessarily easier) right as the bolt reaches its peak holding performance? Feeling for proper bolt stretch?

Now, is it possible that you got a bolt that just wasn't as strong as the others? Probably
Yep,, could be. Some stuff just isn't up to snuff. But greasing up threads reduces rotational friction which requires less Torque to achieve the clamping force. And invites stripping threads. True, but, assuming that what I put on there was no worse than plain motor oil, the difference isn't going to be much compared to anti-seize.

http://benmlee.com/4runner/threads/Slide1.JPG
http://benmlee.com/4runner/threads/threads.htm


So,
What went wrong?
What have you learned from it?

A. Don't trust torque wrenches.
  1.Don't trust clickers, especially when they're old, out of tune, and out of their peak torque range.
  2. Beam wrenches are more reliable...period.
  3.Proper torque is not set in stone. It is more or less an indirect method of measuring proper tightness--only one piece of the puzzle. Bolt angle can be more accurate. Tighten till snug (or finger tight???), then a specified amount of rotation. This predicts bolt tension (longitudinal??? Am I wording it right) without the variable of thread friction getting in the way.
  3. Instead of using adapters, get a torque wrench that is appropriate for the size bolt. In other words, one of these days I ought to get a 3/8 inch drive torque wrench. If it's a clicker, especially a cheap one, be well-rehearsed in calibration techniques and beware. Otherwise, get a beamer (not taking about BMW, by the way).
  4. On top of that, torque properly. Be careful when torquing multiple times. You can't go to 40 ft lbs and then turn it the same direction again and expect to be able to get 35.   Of course, I probably knew that already. Just sayin'
  5. Finally, if your torque wrench is liable to cause problems, just throw it away... You're better off using your hand than being fooled and (hmmm... a certain other word feels nearly perfect here, but using it is simply not my style) by a lying torque wrench.

B. Torque is a combination of bolt friction and bolt tension as accomplished by the leverage of the bolt's threads. Tension is what holds the pieces together. Friction is what holds the bolt from moving. Both are important. On the friction side, there is a complicated and fine balance between keeping a bolt easily removable and keeping it from falling out without using too much bolt tension. Knowledgeable or discretionary use of bolt lubrication, anti-seize, or loctite may be warranted.
  1 The presence or absence of bolt lubrication can complicate things considerably. Torque must be reduced after lubricating threads in order to avoid overtensioning the bolt, thereby stretching it too hard or stripping it of threads. As it seems, anti-seize can be the worst for causing problems, while the effect of other lubricants can be mildly significant, but not severe. Loctite serves as an initial lubricant, and torque must be reduced then as well.
  2. Anti-seize is used when there is substantial risk of the bolt getting stuck and becoming difficult or impossible to remove by conventional and convenient means. Anti-seize is most useful in high temperature applications. Otherwise, it may be possible to use oil???
   3.An APPROPRIATE (too high grade can be nearly like welding the bolt in place... too low, it can break loose too easily) grade of thread locker (such as Loctite brand) may be used whenever there is a substantial risk of the bolt/nut coming loose and causing a problem,and is ESPECIALLY NECESSARY when the friction provided by proper bolt torquing is not sufficient to hold the bolt in place. Over-tightening as a substitute for thread locker is often not a very good option and can sometimes be disastrous.
   4. Don't trust book values. Follow the above principles. It is better to go for minimum torque than strip, especially for specialty fasteners.
   5.A good hand can go a long way to finding proper tightness, in accordance with A5. Torque wrenches are not always necessary, especially with wide torque ranges.

C. I learned a little more  about the value of bolt shoulders.

D. I should have checked thread length. (I knew better but missed it this time). Oversight...

cheapnewb24 wrote on 08/18/16 at 08:47:31:





And, once again, the details come out.

After how long?

So, was there anything done differently with the one that stripped?
Were they all torqued in stages?
I'm guessing not.

Here is something for the inexperienced.

When assembling things, get all the bolts started.
Then, gently snug them, working a pattern. A head on a V8 has a different pattern than a wheel, but the concept is the same. On a sprocket, I would not even use a torque wrench. I know what Tight feels like. But I Would get all the bolts in, snug in a crossing pattern and continue In that pattern gradually increasing the torque until I Felt the bolts come tight. If I knew that they were Supposed to be able to Take 45pounds I would be looking at the effort I was putting out and length of the ratchet and maybe even add a cheater pipe to make it easier for me.
Six bolts ,, consider the Clamping Force of six bolts. The thread angle of the bolts, the finer the thread, the less angle. So, a fine thread with a given torque will clamp tighter than a coarse thread with the same torque, all else being equal.
Take six bolts, and think about just how hard it will be to make sure that sprocket is not gonna move.
What kinda power is it getting?
What was the
Recommended Torque you were given?Usually, it's a range, not a specific target. On the Savage the torque specs are often very wide. Just because a torque spec is listed in a book doesn't mean that a torque wrench is needed.

That
It just got easier to turn
Feeling?
You don't know it yet but your body learned what it feels like Just as it starts. Do that a few more times and You will develop the feel of a bolt coming to its full potential and more isn't better..

Now, is it possible that you got a bolt that just wasn't as strong as the others?
Yep,, could be. Some stuff just isn't up to snuff. But greasing up threads reduces rotational friction which requires less Torque to achieve the clamping force. And invites stripping threads.


So,
What went wrong?
What have you learned from it?

justin_o_guy2 wrote on 08/18/16 at 10:04:27: