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Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anything! (Read 1052 times)
gizzo
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #30 - 08/16/16 at 01:42:49
 
Hovis, that's a really nice thing to say. Have some good Karma.

I had to buy a bicycle torque wrench recently, for the fasteners on my Royal Enfield, which strip and snap at a bee's d!ck over finger tight. Even the sump plug.

When I was an apprentice, one of my tradesmen would say "do it up til it strips, then back it off half a turn"
He also said  "ïf it doesn't move, force it. If it breaks it needed replacing anyway. "

Only in fun, but it became known as Cliff's Law  Cheesy.
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #31 - 08/16/16 at 02:52:09
 
The prob with buying a used hub is that it may also have been over-torqued. Buy new bolts and nuts and start over.
I may have a set of used bolts and nuts in my stash (doing an oddball conversion on mine). I'll look.
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #32 - 08/16/16 at 04:14:06
 
Nothing wrong with the torque wrench you just need a set of rubber sockets.
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #33 - 08/16/16 at 04:19:15
 
I might have some extra hub bolts/nuts....I will look around tonight and see what I have.
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #34 - 08/16/16 at 04:55:54
 
I have a good used set of nuts and bolts if you want them. Send me your address.
Arme
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #35 - 08/16/16 at 15:24:25
 
This is why I have an extra set of bolts. Putting Heli-Coils in the holes and using bolts only.
Honestly, this is not a great idea from an engineering point of view  Tongue
-Armen
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #36 - 08/16/16 at 15:29:19
 
I PM'ed Armen.

I also just ordered some Stainless M10x20 washers. I ordered a bag of 50. I wonder if I shouldn't have ordered the plain zinc... would have been cheaper. Undecided Would I have been happy with plain zinc??? Plain zinc is kinda ugly... and it's not quite as good corrosion-wise.  Undecided Who knows?

A fellow needs to figure out the least he can get away with that accomplishes his goals, decide whether its reliable enough, and is close enough to the specs and quality he wants, and do that. How many people have spend crazy amounts of money on things which make no difference? How often do people buy overpriced, overbuilt stuff because of the blind assumption that anything less will not make them happy?

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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #37 - 08/16/16 at 15:52:54
 
Armen wrote on 08/16/16 at 15:24:25:
This is why I have an extra set of bolts. Putting Heli-Coils in the holes and using bolts only.
Honestly, this is not a great idea from an engineering point of view  Tongue
-Armen


Why? Because the threads are more likely to strip somehow, or because they're not replaceable like nuts are?

I did find some square nuts (work it backwards), but they probably would need grinding. Who's to say they'll be strong enough, either?https://www.fastenal.com/products/details/0161912?r=~|categoryl1:%22600000%20...

Suzuki ought to have used more of a "T-bolt" instead of square head. Better seating against the hub. Something a little more like this maybe.... in proper size, with a little longer neck? https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cur-95041?seid=srese1&cm_mmc=pla-google-_-...

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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #38 - 08/16/16 at 16:50:14
 
Armen wrote on 08/16/16 at 15:24:25:
This is why I have an extra set of bolts. Putting Heli-Coils in the holes and using bolts only.
Honestly, this is not a great idea from an engineering point of view  Tongue
-Armen


What??? What's with all the extra holes???

I understand it's aluminum, right? That might make it weaker... But then, you've got quite a bit of thread space with the original holes. Huh
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #39 - 08/16/16 at 17:37:36
 
Good questions.
If you look at the original bolts, you'll see that the loaded area at the shear point between the hub and the sprocket is smooth. The threads start outside the hub. This gives a strong, smooth, stress free surface to the load.
By running bolts through the sprocket into the hub like I'm doing, the mating surfaces are loading against the threads, which provide a nice place for a break to start.
My rationalization is twofold-the bike is pretty dickless and there are 6 bolts holding it together. And I check the bolts often.
Part of the goal is to have a cool looking bike  Smiley

On the subject of washers, well..
In general stainless fastener are not as strong as as graded steel ones.
Having said that, one has to consider what the hardware is you are replacing. On metric hardware you'll see hardness ratings like 8.8, 10.9, and 12.9 for the harder grades. On a small, price point bike like Savage, the Japanese use harness ratings like 'SMFDP' and 'DCODP' which stand for 'Soft Moist Fresh Dog Poop' and 'Dry Crusty Old Dog Poop'.
Grin
In other words, the stainless stuff is usually at least as strong as the OEM stuff.
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #40 - 08/16/16 at 18:12:43
 
Dry, crusty, old dog poop, huh? Grin

I'm guessing that some of those holes are for looks and to save weight?

For goodness sakes, why can't manufacturers make good metal? is it that hard to do? Seems to me like making a new sand mold and then breaking it every time for casting is some trouble. Can't they just take a big press and smash out parts in one hard lick?

The reasons factories choose one method over another... an interesting topic.

Maybe it's the equipment... not the difficulty. Perhaps casting is a poor man's method??? Save the big guns for the most important, most expensive stuff?

Yeah, I think a shoulder down most of the way is a good idea too. You put a different spin on the idea though.
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #41 - 08/16/16 at 18:19:17
 
Armen wrote on 08/16/16 at 17:37:36:
On a small, price point bike like Savage, the Japanese use harness ratings like 'SMFDP' and 'DCODP' which stand for 'Soft Moist Fresh Dog Poop' and 'Dry Crusty Old Dog Poop'.


You had me going for all that for a second.   Grin
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #42 - 08/16/16 at 18:37:11
 
Cast iron does have it's advantages. I seem to recall that cast iron gears are quieter and have lower friction than steel gears. Huh
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #43 - 08/16/16 at 18:53:22
 
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Re: Don't trust torque specs, wrenches... or anyth
Reply #44 - 08/16/16 at 19:19:04
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVLrAce8lHE

Nice... I bet our bike has cast pistions. Huh Wouldn't forged pistons very suitable in a motorcycle, especially one like ours?

Yeah... this thread is drifting a bit, but it's still on topic (strength of materials). I'm going to have to shut up... If I keep going, somebody's pro'ly gonna stick this in the cafe. Grin
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